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Rob,
I have finally started working on this. Today I simply just listened through the tracks one by one.
I hear a couple of issues with the raw tracks:
1. The Bass and Guitar tracks are simply dead above about 3 kHz. I can fix that to some extent.
2. The drums sound 'smeared'. Here is what probably happened. The RT is native at probably 20-30 BPM higher than what you used. This means that in order to use it at the BPM that you are using it, one of two things have to happen: The time stretch algorithm breaks up the track into very small chunks and stretches those chunks, sometimes by repeating them, so that they will map into the BPM of the song. 2. The RT has position markers for each dynamic event and these position markers are re-mapped into the slower BPM. This usually sounds better, but if there is a big difference in the BPM, then it will be distasteful because gaps form in the RT.
I think #1 happened with this track.
What is the RT's native BPM? WHat is the BPM of the song?
Bottom line - A different RT is going to be needed for the drums. A good portion of what I hear as 'mud' is this smeared drum sound. The snare simply doesn't have any snap any more. This can't be fixed with EQ. I have some country drum loops that might be usable but I need to know the precise BPM of the song in order to try them out.
-Scott
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ACW could give you that in less time than typing that reply!
just sayin ..
some features of PGProducts like the ACW are worth the price of admission by themselves
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Robb, you have a PM with a private link to my first cut.
On the vox, there were some resonances that I was able to manage with EQ. I would highly recommend that you get a parametric EQ plugin that you can audition live while looping different sections of the song. It's probably the room you are recording in.
If you want me to post the link here, let me know. I didn't do much 'arranging', that is, mimicing where you raised and lowered levels of tracks - just EQ'd bass, vocals, guitar, fiddle and mandolin.
All of those needed some EQ to make their own space in the mix. Others would probably EQ differently, but there were plenty of overlapping stuff that muddied up the mix. I also used some reverb and sent different tracks different amounts.
rharv, I assume you are referring to Auto Chord Wizard determining tempo, correct? I'd like to get the actual project BPM if possible, to avoid any potential error that could build up over the project length.
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ACW can be way more accurate then simple BPM, for the record.
It allows you to adjust the tempo map into /thousandths of BPM if there is any variation at all (on any given measure).
Not uncommon to end up with a Tempo map showing tempos like 120.56764436 on one measure and 120.133644 on the next measure.
If you are looking for a simple rounded number it should be easy to tap the Tempo button and find it.
For fun I ran his song rollinon thru ACW
Says it's about 126;
example tempos inserted:
126.2148657834 (measure 8)
125.9175539825 (measure 9)
126.0495194541 (measure 10)
Last edited by rharv; 06/01/13 07:51 AM.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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I am under an assumption that it is a simple interval for BPM. When I tried to tap tempo it, I got 125 (roughly) for a portion.
Unless the song was recorded free form, I would be very surprised to see a variance in BPM. The variances that you list above are small enough that I would count that as error for an auto tempo detect algorithm. (edit - or even variance from conversion to .mp3)
I'll try 126 and see how it rolls!
It probably doesn't matter in the end, I got a usable drum sound from the existing track with some judicious EQ and compression. The smeared snare sound is less prominent.
I'll wait for Robb's review of what I did so far.
Last edited by rockstar_not; 06/01/13 10:08 AM.
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I am under an assumption that it is a simple interval for BPM It probably was indeed done at an even 126 originally. I only posted the results to show you how accurate you can get the ACW to be. Even if a song was done in free form, with the ACW you can set a tempo map that is pretty exacting. Then loops and realtracks/drums can follow it. I've seen free form recordings range from 97 to 102 within a few measures .. but I could still line up generated parts once the ACW wrote the tempo map. Just one of many tools in PGProducts that doesn't get enough notice/props. 
Last edited by rharv; 06/01/13 01:04 PM.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Scott,
I sincerely thank you for your effort.
The original track was indeed recorded at a steady 126bpm. I can upload the BIAB file if it would be helpful.
I am having difficulty really listening to the new mix as the tracks are misaligned (I probably made some sort of error when exporting them). I will take the EQ settings you sent me via email and apply them to the original tracks and see how that works.
You are more than welcome to post the link and/or settings as you wish. It may prove to be educational to others. I will do the same.
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Robb, if you want to re-export the .mp3 files for the whole song, each track individually, I should be able to slot them in for the tracks already sent.
Better yet - try the EQ stuff I mentioned first as to what I did in my version and see what it turns out like.
If you grab either of those parametric EQs and use the settings I sent to you, do some gentle panning, maybe some compression on the individual tracks, I'm guessing you'll be pleasantly surprised.
-Scott
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Sonar has a couple of built in parametrics. I am going to apply the EQ settings you suggested to the original mix. I'll post the results.
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Don't forget the panning in addition to EQ. Also I just surfed YouTube to see if I could see some of the parametric stuff in Sonar, and I ran across this (it's in ProTools, but the concept is just about exactly the process that I went through on your tracks) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdDDVortvRU-Scott
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I finally had time this weekend to get back to this song. Rollin' On EQ'd I applied the recommended settings with the following 2 exceptions: For the vox I applied a HPF @ ~150Hz with the slope set to HP Order of 12dB. To cut the BOOM of the kick I applied a HPF @100Hz also with the slope set to 12dB.
Lead Vocal EQ settings:
1. Highpass filter set at 295 Hz followed by
2. Parametric EQ (shown) with two parametric filters active:
a: frequency=342 Hz, -17 dB gain, Q=1.88
b: frequency=999Hz, -16 dB gain, Q=3.73
Electric Guitar EQ Settings:
1. Parametric EQ with two active parametric filters set:
a. frequency=2846 Hz, gain=15.4 dB, Q=0.5
b. frequency=5809 Hz, gain=15.8 dB, Q=2.09
Fiddle AND Resonator Guitar EQ Settings:
Parametric EQ with one filter active:
Frequency=9146 Hz, Gain=11 dB, Q=0.5
Mandolin EQ Settings:
Parametric EQ with two filters active:
a. Low shelf filter Frequency=59 Hz, gain=-20 dB, Q=0.5
b. Frequency = 11884 Hz, Gain=20 dB, q=0.5
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