Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
M
Mac Offline
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
M
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Over the decades, I can't say that I've ever heard someone who had the ability to read music ever lament the fact.


--Mac

Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,809
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,809
Whar I mean is this. Myt partner has been playing piano for thirty years, she can read anything well first time, she cant improvise a note. This is the way I was taught 'classical' method, on my first instrument. I really wanted to improvise, could read anything but was stuck - completely stuck.
The modern musician almost must improvise. Many of the bands I have been in have very accomplished musicians that cant read a note - particularly gu8itarists. Why? Well notation just cant capture certain things, the wail of a blues harmonica or the screech of a electric solo - how can you write these things down? If you do it would be so complex that it would only be readable by the very few. I once was handed a chart of a sax solo it was full of demisemiquavers, but all that was really happening was the player was coming in a little early.

Whilst I agree reading music in an elementary way is useful and should be in the kit bag, I have on my bookshelf several volumes of piano exercises, for impro and tech, I would not suggest putting these in front of the eyes and playing them. Much better (IMHO) to dispense with the third man (the page) and just have you and the piano. Learn some theory, learn some song forms, then apply your exercise to these. not to the original exercise only, but also to other settings, this way learning increases exponentially
My partner can easily read the heads of the Real Book but flounders on the chords.
Its just a personal belief, but I feel that harmonic understanding should be taught first, and applied rigorously, before reading, reading has its place of course, but even the accomplished classical player dispenses with it as soon as is possible. When I read for the piano I make sure to close the page as soon as I have mastered a phrase/line that way I memorise. Its a common trap to use reading as a crutch. Who wants to walk on crutches?

Just a point of view...


Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129
J
Joe V Offline OP
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
J
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129
I'm actually trying to avoid what Zero Zero describes. It's easy to lose the forest while you're in the trees of learning to read music, to the neglect of learning your instrument intimately (exploring and touching it in intuitive meaningful ways guided by the theory of chord formulas, scale formulas, and discovery of their fingerings - far beyond your ability to read fluently.)

But that's been my lack of balance - so for me, that is why my approach this time around includes the balance I've lacked in the past.

The discussion is not whether or not to focus on both reading and non-reading exercise - but how to best balance your time between the two. And that's different for everyone given your previous history and hindsight.

Last edited by Joe V; 11/09/13 05:03 AM.
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
M
Mac Offline
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
M
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Sounds reasonable to me as a plan, Joe, my only concern involves the intentional neglecting of one very important aspect of the thing and you don't sound like you'll fall for that anymore.

Onward and Upward,


--Mac

Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
R
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
R
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Joe, learn to read music from many different angle as you approach keyboard. When it starts to feel like monotony, move on to a different type of exercise. Macs recommendations are great for scales and parallel and contrapuntal movement from what I recall. I also remember a Fingerpower series. These seem boring but they are fundamental to getting your hands to do what is needed in actual playing. Also check out the Scott Houston stuff. His stuff will get you comping for pop and rock. He will expect some ability to read and for you to know note names and time values. I love his teaching style-very encouraging and gets folks a sense of accomplishment with pretty quick and long term useful techniques and ideas. You might find some of his series on ebAy

Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129
J
Joe V Offline OP
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
J
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129
Thanks Scott - will add them to my library.

Somehow for me - playing around with motor coordination and fingerings is fun, but reading is very fatiguing...especially the contrapuntal lines and scales (Mac's very good book suggestions) where the left and right hands are doing very different / Independent things very frequently and at the very same time - like switching positions at different times, playing notes simultaneously.

I know I will have to very work on these things at some point. And I think the goal is to see the staff as a single composite object - not 2 different hands. But my guess is that composite comes after many arduous hours with the more difficult reading studies. I know all this - I just don't enjoy the process (hence - I'm not a working musician : )

Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
M
Mac Offline
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
M
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Originally Posted By: Joe V
...where the left and right hands are doing very different / Independent things very frequently and at the very same time - like switching positions at different times, playing notes simultaneously.

I know I will have to very work on these things at some point. And I think the goal is to see the staff as a single composite object - not 2 different hands.


It is not the number of hands, per se, but what happens in the head with the little gray cells that is really the problem we must overcome. The repetition of practice, slowly but always evenly at first, is where the speed comes from, for what we are really doing is programming our brain to familiarity with doing things such as controlling the so-called "muscle memory".

And, it is not a matter just for the keyboard. Guitar players who are serious must also work towards mastering the contrapointal aspects of playing, too.

Jerry Reed transcribed this lick from the New Orleans Jazz pianist Allen Toussaint who wrote the tune, "Southern Nights" - and then taught the lick to Glen Campbell, who enjoyed a hit and its money from same (and I'd bet that Mr. Toussaint did not object to the songwriter's royalties that came his way either...):



Ascending and Descending Chromatics at the same time!

And via the wonders of the internet, we can hit YouTube and find a whole first page of guitarists willing to teach that lick. Slow and even, soon enough comes fast and even, then comes that time when the entire thing is like firing a Macro from within your mind. You don't really think about it anymore, the familiarity breeds the contempt of just firin' it off.



While many may have passed this tune off as being just another country/pop offering, let's not neglect Toussaint's original performance of his song:




Quote:
But my guess is that composite comes after many arduous hours with the more difficult reading studies. I know all this - I just don't enjoy the process (hence - I'm not a working musician : )


One can choose to make it hard and tedious, and will get what they have chosen.

On the other hand, if one heeds my oft mentioned advice to always practice intelligently, work on one small part of a particular problem at a time, only drill for ten to twenty minutes at most on it, set it aside and come back to it another day, don't fall prey to the idea that these things MUST be mastered in a self-imposed deadline situation, in other words always keep your practicing in line with the PGMusic motto, "HAVE FUN" when working with your music, the end results will take care of themselves.

If they can do it, you can do it too.

Deep Desire. That's what it really takes.


--Mac

Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
M
Mac Offline
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
M
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
For Joe:




Very Strong Performance and a Double Tremelo to die for.


--Mac

Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129
J
Joe V Offline OP
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
J
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129
ok - I'm psyched ! Thanks again for sharing - I especially need the reminder of 10 to 20 minutes of focus and not burning oneself out.

Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
R
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
R
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Joe, here is a great segment on Keith Jarrett's drummer and bass player on how important they think piano playing is to playing their own instruments - to support Mac's point from at least a page back.

http://youtu.be/2KbqjVYztoQ?t=6m44s

-Scott

Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
M
Mac Offline
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
M
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Lionel Hampton was a drummer and known primarily as a vibrophonist.

He also played a mean "two-finger piano" in which he would use just one finger from each hand on the piano, mimicing the use of the two vibe mallets. And played some great piano that way.





Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support

Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.

Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support

Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins

Join the conversation on our forum.

Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac Videos

With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll also keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.

From overviews of new features and walkthroughs of the 202 new RealTracks, to highlights of XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAKs 18, the 2025 49-PAK, and in-depth tutorials — you’ll find everything you need to explore what’s new in Band-in-a-Box® 2025.

Reference this forum post for One-Stop Shopping of our Band-in-a-Box® 2025 Mac Videos — we’ll be adding more videos as they’re released!

Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac is Here!

Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!

Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac with savings of up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special—available until July 31, 2025! Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.

2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Mac 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.

If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!

Band-in-a-Box 2025 Italian Version is Here!

Cari amici
È stata aggerate la versione in Italiano del programma più amato dagli appassionati di musica, il nostro Band-in-a-Box.
Questo è il link alla nuova versione 2025.

Di seguito i link per scaricare il pacchetti di lingua italiana aggiornati per Band-in-a-Box e RealBand, anche per chi avesse già comprato la nuova versione in inglese.

Band-in-a-Box 2025 - Italiano
RealBand 2025 - Italiano

Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!

Bonjour à tous,

Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music

Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:

BIAB 2025 - francisation
RealBand 2025 - francisation

Voilà, enjoy!

Band-in-a-Box 2025 German Version is Here!

Band-in-a-Box 2025 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!

Die deutsche Version Band-in-a-Box® 2025 für Windows ist ab sofort verfügbar!

Alle die bereits die englische Version von Band-in-a-Box und RealBand 2024 installiert haben, finden hier die Installationsdateien für das Sprachenupdate:

https://nn.pgmusic.com/pgfiles/languagesupport/deutsch2025.exe
https://nn.pgmusic.com/pgfiles/languagesupport/deutsch2025RB.exe

Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 to Build 1128 for Windows Today!

Already using Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 1128 now from our Support Page to enjoy the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.

Stay up to date—get the latest update now!

Forum Statistics
Forums58
Topics84,298
Posts777,447
Members39,614
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
Newest Members
weedindubai, Claudio Paolini, bjornen71, CATBELLOU, Banjopotamus
39,613 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 148
zedd 120
DC Ron 106
nonchai 104
WaoBand 102
rsdean 86
Today's Birthdays
timbalera, WineRider
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5