|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,646
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,646 |
I have been wanting to create a lead guitar part using midi and the piano roll on Band in a Box. How can I create a hammer on and pull off sound, and also a slide from one note to another, that sounds realistic? I want to insert the chords and then insert the lead guitar part using midi notes. I can enter notes easily but do not know how to create the above mentioned licks on midi. I have heard some of you guys do amazing things with midi, help appreciated!
My TunesPsalm 57:7 My heart, O God, is steadfast, my heart is steadfast; I will sing and make music.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,926
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,926 |
I have been wanting to create a lead guitar part using midi and the piano roll on Band in a Box. How can I create a hammer on and pull off sound, and also a slide from one note to another, that sounds realistic? I want to insert the chords and then insert the lead guitar part using midi notes. I can enter notes easily but do not know how to create the above mentioned licks on midi. I have heard some of you guys do amazing things with midi, help appreciated! As far as geekery in GM, you kinda need to think like a Martian. First, there are some sounds that few people know about--like fret noise--which can add realism to otherwise static sounds. Be sure to look through the entire 128-voice sound set to see what is available. You probably know this, but, unless you render the sound to audio, the results are going to vary for each person, depending on their GM sound set. Another GM approach is to use sounds other than what you would expect in certain cases. For instance, for the hammer-on I would use the picked electric bass sound in the appropriate octave for guitar. I recommended experimentation for the pull-off, but it would be different than the hammer. Try upright bass and fingered bass. I once heard a very convincing simulation of Beatle Paul's Hofner bass which consisted of 60% upright bass and 40% acoustic guitar in the same octave as the bass, which gave it both depth and that round-wound sound. I just mention it as an example of thinking outside of the box. Best I've been able to do for a single-note slide was to draw in a pitch curve when I was creating a fretless bass sound. (I did it both with an original piece, and with a transcription of Jaco's rendition of "Donna Lee," which nearly brought me to tears of frustration). It sort of works, depending on the resolution of your mouse and how steady your hand is. You need a MIDI editor in which you can do that--not sure if you can in BIAB/RB. IIRC, I was using Cubase LE at the time. Chords are another matter; I think that would be very difficult to simulate, but hey. You may surprise yourself and us. Hope this gives you a starting point. Richard
Last edited by Ryszard; 02/19/14 01:51 AM.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Step-entry for the thing is a very trying way to try to go about it, and even after long hours of work cannot duplicate what can be done using a MIDI keyboard controller with Pitchbend Wheel, Expression Pedal and simply Recording the part as MIDI in realtime.
Even then, it is sometimes a good thing to go back and overdub the Pitchbends at differing parts after resetting the Pitchbend parameter, such that instead of full travel = +/- 2 half steps, the typical default, changing that to a different value in order to have longer or shorter slides can help.
As for Hammer-Ons and Pulloffs, the real problem there has more to do with the MIDI synth patch in use, while some are a bit better than others due to having more Velocity layers to choose from, there are likely to still be problems with the Attack of each note in the given Patch, which if a Picked or Plucked guitar example, often don't have any samples without at least a small amplitude pickmark in them.
MIDI "Jazz Guitar" patches may work better for this purpose, especially when followed by guitar effects and/or amp simulation plugins to alter the "original" sound of that patch.
That said, I'm also of the mindset that certain instruments just should not be attempted using MIDI if your target is a finished recording and this particular instrument choice is one of those.
That, or shell out the amount of money it takes to get your hands on the new Yamaha Tyros 5 and record its fantastically realistic modeled sounds as Audio to DAW...
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,191
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,191 |
I’m in the same camp as Mac in that getting a realistic guitar sound is not easy. In fact it is impossible if using a GM sound set.
As Mac said if you want a realistic sounding MIDI guitar it is going to cost you money. On the software side there are a number of excellent sounding third party guitar patches for Kontakt. These will have guitar articulations assigned to keyswitches. For example press C1 while playing C5 to D6 for a hammer on, press C#1 while playing C5 to D6 for a slide etc. Then add some guitar effects to mask the MIDI like reverb, echo and chorus.
But your best approach IMHO is to get a guitarist to play the part. That way you will be guarantied to get a realistic sound.
Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer.
It's called the Heineken Maneuver.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
REALTRACKS.
While not being able to provide us with the ability to play our own designated riffs and melodies, I have found that using a more realistic MIDI patch to play the designated part and adding in a Realtrack Dobro, Slide Electric or Steel yields the "aura" of the realistic slide guits in there.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,363
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,363 |
I too find step entry a very difficult way to make most things sound realistic. For slides, hammer ons and pull offs, I do two things depending on the synthesizer I'm using. If the synth has a good legato mode, just playing the notes for hammer on and pull off will work. But again, that depends on the synth. If not, good, quick use of the pitch bend control works wonders. For slides, if emulating a glass or brass slide, I'll always use pitch bend. Depending on how much I want to slide, I might use the Continuous Controllers to control the pitch bend range so I can slide more than a couple of half steps. Using the CCs can also help with hammer ons and pull offs. If you set your pitch bend range to a half step, you can rapidly move the joystick or pitch bend wheel to the max to get a quicker transition between pitches, making the hammer on more realistic. One more thing, if you export your MIDI and import it into a sequencer, you can just play the first note and then insert the pitch bend at the right time. I've had very good results with this, but it takes a bit of trial and error to get this right. A complete list of continuous controllers and their functions can be found here: http://www.nortonmusic.com/midi_cc.htmlInsights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
Imustbenuts, If you send me a link of what you are looking for I'll play the part for you. We can collab and both knock off one of our 14.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,363
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,363 |
Pitchbends on a MIDI keyboard?
The Master:
Ray was one of the all time greats. When I was a kid I had almost all his stuff on the ABC Paramont label. I've seen him live a couple of times and he did great shows. The world is better for the fact that he passed this way. I read that Edgar Winter fooled Rolling Stone magazine with his synth solo in Frankenstein. Rolling Stone awarded it one of the 100 top rock guitar solos. I didn't read the Rolling Stone article, so that could be urban legend. And my own contribution (although it's done with a MIDI wind controller instead of a keyboard): http://www.nortonmusic.com/mp3/_oldtimeguitar.mp3It was recorded live on a gig on an old pre-iPod Archos Juke Box's internal mic so the fidelity isn't the best. The background is BiaB using one of my styles with synth horn lines added near the end of the clip. The MIDI controller is a Yamaha WX5 and the synth is a Yamaha VL70m using the Guitar Hero patch (tweaked by me). I mapped the pitch bend to the reed and used the reed as I would a joystick or wheel on a keyboard synth for both string bend and whammy bar effects. And if you listen, you can even hear where my thumb slipped off the octave key button and then recovered. I am proud to make mistakes on every gig, and equally as proud to cover them up so that most people don't hear them but me. I posted this one in a guitar forum, not telling them I did this on a synth. I got plenty of great compliments, nobody said it sounded like a synth, one person even said it sounded Jeff-Beck-Ish (to me a high praise). After dozens of supportive comments, I came clean, told them I did it on a synth and got even more great comments. Only then did one person come up and say he though something sounded a little funny but he couldn't tell what. Fooling guitarists on a guitar patch is the ultimate test that it can be done. This next one was done on a friend's CD. My friend is an excellent guitarist, but he wanted guitar synth on this cut and asked me if I would play it. It's a first and only take. I wanted it to sound guitar-ish but since he asked for synth guitar I wanted it to sound a bit "synthy" too. Again using the WX5 and VL70m combo but with an aftermarket Les Paul patch that I tweaked a bit. http://www.nortonmusic.com/mp3/_personalchoice.mp3That's me playing synth guitar (for better or worse). Insights and incites by Notes
Last edited by Notes Norton; 02/20/14 10:20 AM.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
I would have a hard time finding it, but there was about 6mo-1 year ago a killer set of both acoustic as well as electric guitar VSTi that used samples as well as physical modeling if I recall correctly. They sounded outstanding, complete with hammer ons and pull-offs if I recall correctly. I think I posted a link to them here at PG forums.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
I couldn't find the thread, but I did find the plugin series - from amplesound.net Watch the videos. Be amazed. In my opinion, these are the absolute best resources for both acoustic and electric guitar soft-instruments for midi response on the market. http://www.amplesound.net/en/pro-pd.asp?id=3Make sure to watch the one called 'slidesmoother' you'll see what I mean. But then again, I would be willing to do a collab with you for FAWM if your immediate need is one of your 14 songs. I'm scottlake at FAWM. -Scott
Last edited by rockstar_not; 02/20/14 05:03 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,646
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,646 |
Thanks everyone for lending your expertise! I will put some of the tips to use after FAWM is over, as I know it is a time consuming task to write parts and then make them sound human. Per the suggestions I will hook up my midi keyboard and try to produce some of these. Thanks to all, as always the guys and gals of PG forum are always so willing and knowledgeable to help!
My TunesPsalm 57:7 My heart, O God, is steadfast, my heart is steadfast; I will sing and make music.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,363
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,363 |
While it is definitely time consuming, it gets quicker with time as your skill level increases. Good luck. And remember, they call it PLAYing music for a reason  Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,303
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,303 |
One thing I have noticed with the specialty VST's. Especially the guitars and the steel guitars with names such as "real strat" and others.
There is a huge learning curve and keyboard skills are mandatory. If you're not already halfway proficient on the keys, you will likely have problems replicating the realistic sounds and articulations needed to convince most people that they are hearing a real guitarist. Two handed playing and manipulating of the pitch wheel are required.
I picked up a steel guitar VST demo many years back during my search for a reasonable steel guitar sounding synth. I got it working just fine as far as getting sound from it. I believe it was a NI Kontakt compatible 3rd party VST. The bending of the strings and making it sound real.... like there was someone playing who actually knew what they were doing..... yeah, not so much.
Then I found BB/RB and ..... problem solved.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,119
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,119 |
The Yamaha Keyboards like PSR750 thru Tyros have them built in already. The problem lies with GM being able to "read" the XG data.
However, the latest keyboards can also save in wave format right from the keyboard itself.
You may want to contact "Seeker" on here (Frank). He has a PSR and is also connected to the best PSR Forum on the net. Maybe they can record the slides and thumps you need? It is very simple to do on one of those keyboards and they sound as realistic as a real guitar.
Trax
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,706
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,706 |
As great as Mr. Charles was this tune really kicks in when the drummer comes in with that back beat on the tom, IMHO.
This is truly a great raw performance. I forgot about this one thanks for posting Mac.
PS: Robert I did not comment on your question as I feel there is "no way" to get a "realistic" guitar sound from a midi. Again just my opinion.
Later,
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
Another master at pitch bends on keys is Chick Corea. However, neither Chick nor in my opinion Ray Charles are demonstrating 'realistic midi guitar slides', great pitch bending notwithstanding. If you take a look/listen to the link I posted from Amplesound - there is at least one example of a multi-fret slide where the note instantiations happening due to the sliding across frets that happens in a real guitar, is happening. IMO, there's a big difference between pitch bending and guitar neck slide simulation. This is a demo of a midi guitar 'slide': https://soundcloud.com/ample-sound/3-2-5-slidesmootherhere's another: https://soundcloud.com/ample-sound/3-2-4-sioAgain, these are MIDI examples using Amplesound's VSTi engine. In my opinion, this is the most clear demonstration of MIDI guitar slides that sound realistic. For that matter, I believe that this company has the most realistic acoustic and electric guitar MIDI sample/VSTi available, by quite a long shot compared to anything else. The articulations that they have available, including these slides, are quite amazing in my opinion. I've always been of the mindset that to get realistic guitar via MIDI, it had to be done with a real player or loops like realtracks. However, watching/listening to the demos from Amplesound has decreased my strength of opinion in that regard. These are dang close and in some respects better than what you can get out of some local hired-in guitar players - but you had better be really good with your keyboard playing/nuancing with whatever tools Amplesound provides to add in the realism. Here's some electric guitar slides that IMO are pretty danged spot-on: https://soundcloud.com/ample-sound/agg-80s-solohere's some great jazz guitar bends using one of their electric guitar bends - ala Doc Powell and others: https://soundcloud.com/ample-sound/agp-scotts-smooth-jazz-demoNo affiliation with this company, but I was just wowed by their midi guitar stuff - slides included. I've heard some pretty convincing bend simulations before, but not slides like this. -Scott
Last edited by rockstar_not; 02/25/14 04:41 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,646
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,646 |
Thanks everyone, Rockstar you are right those sound pretty amazing to be midi, thanks for sharing!
My TunesPsalm 57:7 My heart, O God, is steadfast, my heart is steadfast; I will sing and make music.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,075
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,075 |
some synths have special guitar patches that articulate differently according to velocity (like a hammer on if velocity is higher than some threshold)
I've also seen upper bank patches on some synths that do nothing BUT the crazy little sounds you just can't get from a GM guitar patch
If you have a hardware synth, explore the upper banks... you'll probably find some interesting solutions. Older Roland modules have a lot of these patches.
But, it still takes a lot of patience to build a convincing guitar part that way...
(gotta love those Real Tracks!)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,926
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,926 |
I have heard precisely two keyboard players who could emulate a natural-sounding lead guitar. (I should probably get out more.) However, these were single-note lines with a distorted sound. I never heard an attempt at chords or multistring slides.
Propellerhead Reason, a combination soft synth and DAW, has what they call Refills (sound libraries by PH and third parties) with some absolutely amazing Strat and other guitar sounds. But you have to own Reason (~$450 USD) and the appropriate Refills and be able to do those keyboard gestures in order to make it work.
Any way you go at it there's a price to pay.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
Join the conversation on our forum.
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac Videos
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll also keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
From overviews of new features and walkthroughs of the 202 new RealTracks, to highlights of XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAKs 18, the 2025 49-PAK, and in-depth tutorials — you’ll find everything you need to explore what’s new in Band-in-a-Box® 2025.
Reference this forum post for One-Stop Shopping of our Band-in-a-Box® 2025 Mac Videos — we’ll be adding more videos as they’re released!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac with savings of up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special—available until July 31, 2025! Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Mac 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.
If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 Italian Version is Here!
Cari amici
È stata aggerate la versione in Italiano del programma più amato dagli appassionati di musica, il nostro Band-in-a-Box.
Questo è il link alla nuova versione 2025.
Di seguito i link per scaricare il pacchetti di lingua italiana aggiornati per Band-in-a-Box e RealBand, anche per chi avesse già comprato la nuova versione in inglese.
Band-in-a-Box 2025 - Italiano
RealBand 2025 - Italiano
Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!
Bonjour à tous,
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music
Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:
BIAB 2025 - francisation
RealBand 2025 - francisation
Voilà, enjoy!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 German Version is Here!
Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 to Build 1128 for Windows Today!
Already using Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 1128 now from our Support Page to enjoy the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Stay up to date—get the latest update now!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums58
Topics84,267
Posts777,066
Members39,607
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There are no members with birthdays on this day. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean