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Danny, thanks for clarifying. I couldn't see myself "biting the hand" and would never repay your wonderful kindnesses in such a manner. It brought food for thought, however, and I'll be especially careful not to hurt my fellow musicians (remembering my 40+ years of paying my dues).
About all that I can promise in the "beverage" category is a bottomless flow of great restaurant coffee and about 6 flavors of fruit punch. No, don't you dare spike it! You'd see crutches, canes, walkers, and wheelchairs go flying to the dumpsters. lol
You've been my cyber buddy for several years and I look forward to meeting you in person.
Nurse Amy and hubby, Loren, are clearing their calendars so as not to miss you. Loren really squinted an ear when you started pickin' and Amy is extremely easy to love.
The gig will be something that you will treasure forever, Danny, and my thank yous seem grossly inadequate but thank you again from the bottom o' me wee Oyrish 'art.
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I DO HOPE I am not damaging live music for other musicians by doing so. I wouldn't sweat it at all! Each person should do what is right for them and pay no attention to those who would claim you are harming "real" musicians by working cheap or for free! Funny how someone would make such a claim and then replace real musicians in their own act with BIAB so they can work cheaper!  John, Just FYI . . . I would love to work live musicians on every gig, and yes would take less pay for many reasons. First of all I do not need the money, secondly I grew up playing with other musicians. But considering my age, the type of music I love to play and how that would relate with the age and type of musicians I would have knocking on my door as a result of a Graig's list ad, I will choose to go with the backing tracks every-time. So for me anyway, the thought of being able to work cheaper never enters into the thought process on the road to decision making. Later, Danny, I understand completely! And I think it is just fine to use backing tracks if it works for you! My only point was musicians who use backing tracks to keep their costs down while also complaining that clubs do open mics (or similar things) to cut costs is the pot calling the kettle black! For the record, I have no problem with folks who perform for free or folks who charge an arm and a leg if they can get it! Likewise I have no problem with a club owner bringing in free talent if the talent is willing to do it. One thing that sometimes gets forgotten in these conversations is many (most?) club owners/managers are not making a lot of money either!
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I DO HOPE I am not damaging live music for other musicians by doing so. I wouldn't sweat it at all! Each person should do what is right for them and pay no attention to those who would claim you are harming "real" musicians by working cheap or for free! Funny how someone would make such a claim and then replace real musicians in their own act with BIAB so they can work cheaper! John, Just FYI . . . I would love to work live musicians on every gig, and yes would take less pay for many reasons. First of all I do not need the money, secondly I grew up playing with other musicians. But considering my age, the type of music I love to play and how that would relate with the age and type of musicians I would have knocking on my door as a result of a Graig's list ad, I will choose to go with the backing tracks every-time. So for me anyway, the thought of being able to work cheaper never enters into the thought process on the road to decision making. Later, Danny, I understand completely! And I think it is just fine to use backing tracks if it works for you! My only point was musicians who use backing tracks to keep their costs down while also complaining that clubs do open mics (or similar things) to cut costs is the pot calling the kettle black! For the record, I have no problem with folks who perform for free or folks who charge an arm and a leg if they can get it! Likewise I have no problem with a club owner bringing in free talent if the talent is willing to do it. One thing that sometimes gets forgotten in these conversations is many (most?) club owners/managers are not making a lot of money either! Really? Based on what? Your vast experience in clubs? Hilarious.  Bugsey, you slay me. 
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Personal disclaimer:
Let me also add that there are exceptions to all rules, even the ones I make up in my mind, tongue planted firmly in cheek.
For instance if was aware of a friend or anyone trying to save a struggling restaurant or bar and he/she thought maybe live music could save the joint, I'd be the 1st in line to offer my services. I never have painted with brushes that wide.
I think we all know the examples I am "painting" when I say business's who want free entertainment.
Later,
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Really? Based on what? Your vast experience in clubs? Hilarious. Bugsey, you slay me. well, Chuckles, not much of a challenge, you seem fairly easy to slay!
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 05/19/14 05:43 PM.
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....... I was merely pointing out that a statement like "It's not work. It's music." is fatuous. Load in, setup, 4 hours of playing, load out and a few hours travel time is indeed work. Not to mention the hundreds of hours in rehearsal, arranging, etc. Anyone who thinks that isn't work is either delusional or has never done it. We had some bass bins that were nicknamed "The Beasts" due to their size and weight, and were best handled by at least 2 people. Yeah, trucking in the gear is a hard job. Our band had a road crew but we often helped out in the setup and sometimes the load out. But even our road crew loved the job and loved the music. The head roadie even told me it wasn't work to him. It was a passion. But why do you do it? Is the reason you do it to simply for a paycheck....Simply to make money at the end of the night? Then yes... you had a job.... and yes, it was a hard job to do and it was work to you. But..... If you did it because, when the lights come up, the long hours of practice, rehearsals, and arranging and getting it right meant nothing compared to the precious and amazing few minutes of time you were on stage playing that song flawlessly, because the music was inside you and needed a way out, because you wanted to share the pure joy you felt from the music, because there was nothing else in the world you would rather do, because the cheers and applause of the crowd meant everything to you, because there was a passion driving you.... then perhaps you are a musician. Trust me when I say I have known people who could play and sing who were of both kinds...... some were there because singing a song beat working at Walmart or digging a foundation footing, and there were others who where there because of the passion, and there was music that needed to be expressed. A wise man once said: If you love what you do and you then go and do it, you will never work a day in your life.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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OK, two different view points from me. The first view point being in some agreement with this :-
Surely we have seen the one where the bar, club, or restaurant owner gives it the "How much? that is a lot of money!"
The musician spokesman for the band then says, "OK get six plumbers to work for four hours on a Sunday night and we will do it for half their price!"
The second viewpoint being :-
Now for a fully amateur musician playing in a typical UK brass band, it is amateur status so no individual pay to any player in the band. The band charges £300 to £400 for a two part concert lasting around the four hour mark and that band gets regular work as far as a brass band goes.
Which in reality will be between four to maybe fifteen paying jobs in twelve months. (Depending on the band and its reputation)
In between that the band enters contests where the band actually has to pay a small fee to enter. If the band is any good such as the band I recently left, good results on the contest stage means money prizes, and depending on the contest, venue, and organisation, the prizes can be as little as £100 for first prize with lower amounts for second or third place, with often a third place being nothing more than a cup to put on the trophy shelf.
Other contests can of course give a first prize of as much as £1000. However, many contest entering bands don't get anything more than a piece of paper telling them their fourth, fifth or even tenth place was due to what the adjudicator found was faulty in their performance. Why do the contesting? because good results, due to good hard work from all players means a higher reputation, which in turn gets better paid concert or other work.
Whatever the amount of cash a brass band accumulates over say a twelve month period, that money will be divided among many claimants, rent, power and heat for the rehearsal venue, new or replacement band uniforms, new or replacement instruments, as although most small instrument players can afford to buy their own, the price of a new double Bb bass tuba and the other large instruments is way out of reach of most pockets, so the band itself has to foot the bill for replacement of worn out or too badly damaged instruments. There are of course many other small to large costs too, and for some bands a small retaining fee is paid to the MD which may be only a few hundred a year.
Where does the time go in between the paying jobs after playing the contests?
Mostly on rehearsals twice a week for two to three hours each night just to get the polish on the next contest piece, or to get the seven to fifteen pieces of music fully up to speed and as good as possible for the concert.
As I said, all amateur players who do it for the love of it, the only man or woman who gets some pay is as I said the MD and that is usually only a token fee.
Bearing in mind some players do seek out paid work where trumpet, trombone, or other orchestral, jazz, and other brass work will pay them individually, but they have to be very good players as individuals before they can gain that work.
Most, even though may be good enough, don't look for that work, mainly because of lack of time or they just don't need it.
Just a different viewpoint on the discussion about musicians and being paid to be one.
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A club owner cuts costs by having an open mic night and thereby avoids paying the musicians. You sell/support software designed to allow musicians to cut costs by eliminating the drummer and/or the bass player and/or others. Isn't that pretty much the same thing?
baloney! if you are using backing tracks to eliminate the cost of other musicians you have no right to complain about a club owner using open mics to eliminate the cost of musicians! Somehow I often see comparisons to BiaB and backing tracks as putting musicians out of work. I play in a duo with backing tracks. The places I play would never hire and have never hired a 4 or more piece band. In most cases the "stage" isn't big enough. Put the duo in a club where a 4-7 piece band normally plays and it doesn't work. Both the sound and the visual impact is lost in a big room. So backing tracks can make a duo sound better, but they aren't putting anyone out of work. We worked the cruise ships for 3 years. We played in the small lounge where duos have always played. The 7 piece band played in the bigger lounge, the orchestra played in the biggest room, and the single played in the piano bar. We play in a couple of yacht and country clubs. They have always used duos for the regular dinner/dance nights, and when it comes to the Commodore's Ball, or the Change of Watch party, we never get the gig, they hire 5 or more pieces. We play every Tuesday at a marina with a deck that perhaps fits 50 people - tops. Since it's outdoors, the overflow people bring lawn chairs or sit at picnic tables in the sun. If a 4 piece band with drums were to set up on the deck, they would lose the seating for a dozen or more people. We played in a hotel that had a big room downstairs and a small room upstairs. The big room held over 100 people and they hired 4 or 5 piece bands. We played upstairs in the small room where we huddled in a corner and they put down one of those 10X10 feet portable dance floors. People had dinner and danced after dinner, but it wasn't the singles bar downstairs by any stretch of the imagination. In the 1970s I played in a duo with a keyboard player and a drum machine. We competed with the 2 guitar and a drum machine duos. We never competed with a 4 piece band and still do not. The duos today sound fuller than the old-fashioned 2 musicians and a drum machine duo, but they do not put anyone out of work.
Playing for free does put people out of work. If the freebie person wasn't there, there would be no entertainment and the club would have to hire someone to keep the audience entertained. Hige difference. So for all of you people who play for free, think about how you would feel if your boss gave you a day off each week without pay because someone, perhaps less talented than you, would do your job for free. And then think about whether you want to do that to a fellow musician or not. There are plenty of non-commercial places you can play for free. When I was young we used to set up in public parks, someone's living room (we even invited friends who would bring food and drink), volunteer for a worthy charity, busk in a public place, and so on. But please don't take the food out of another musician's mouth. It's getting more and more difficult to make a living playing music, please don't make it worse. We do charities, and we play yearly at the Veteran's Administration hospital. It's a 60 mile drive from our house, the parking is terrible, schlepping the gear is a pain, but when we are done, the warm reception and the friendly chats with the wheelchair bound former soldiers make it all worth while. That's much better than playing for free while the club owner, bartender, wait staff, dishwasher, janitor, bookkeeper, host/hostess, and everybody else is making money from your talents. Playing for free is pirating gigs from small time musicians - and that's worse than pirating a rich musician's CD. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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"If you did it because, when the lights come up, the long hours of practice, rehearsals, and arranging and getting it right meant nothing compared to the precious and amazing few minutes of time you were on stage playing that song flawlessly, because the music was inside you and needed a way out, because you wanted to share the pure joy you felt from the music, because there was nothing else in the world you would rather do, because the cheers and applause of the crowd meant everything to you, because there was a passion driving you.... then perhaps you are a musician."Never heard such horse pucky in my life. “... when the lights come up...”? Really? “... because the music was inside you and needed a way out”. Jeez...........  We've never had a “road crew” with roadies or groupies or yellow M&M's and Dom Pérignon on our rider, but then, we're obviously not at your level. Of course, we've only been doing it all over the country for over 40 years, so my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt. “... because there was a passion driving you.... then perhaps you are a musician.” “Passion”? Man, that's pure poetry.
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I think "open mics" and "writer's nights" where folks get 15 minute slots to play new material, practice their performing skills and such probably should not be drawn into the "putting working musicians out of work" discussion. But you can if you want to.
Of course, one night for open mic, a couple nights of karaoke, a couple of nights for the DJ and a couple of sport nights and then you are in trouble!
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Re: Passion v.s. Job. It's both. Bills have to be paid, rent/mortgage,food,car payments/upkeep etc. Of course if you're independently wealthy then none of that matters! Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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A club owner cuts costs by having an open mic night and thereby avoids paying the musicians. You sell/support software designed to allow musicians to cut costs by eliminating the drummer and/or the bass player and/or others. Isn't that pretty much the same thing?
baloney! if you are using backing tracks to eliminate the cost of other musicians you have no right to complain about a club owner using open mics to eliminate the cost of musicians! Somehow I often see comparisons to BiaB and backing tracks as putting musicians out of work. I play in a duo with backing tracks. The places I play would never hire and have never hired a 4 or more piece band. In most cases the "stage" isn't big enough. Put the duo in a club where a 4-7 piece band normally plays and it doesn't work. Both the sound and the visual impact is lost in a big room. So backing tracks can make a duo sound better, but they aren't putting anyone out of work. We worked the cruise ships for 3 years. We played in the small lounge where duos have always played. The 7 piece band played in the bigger lounge, the orchestra played in the biggest room, and the single played in the piano bar. We play in a couple of yacht and country clubs. They have always used duos for the regular dinner/dance nights, and when it comes to the Commodore's Ball, or the Change of Watch party, we never get the gig, they hire 5 or more pieces. We play every Tuesday at a marina with a deck that perhaps fits 50 people - tops. Since it's outdoors, the overflow people bring lawn chairs or sit at picnic tables in the sun. If a 4 piece band with drums were to set up on the deck, they would lose the seating for a dozen or more people. We played in a hotel that had a big room downstairs and a small room upstairs. The big room held over 100 people and they hired 4 or 5 piece bands. We played upstairs in the small room where we huddled in a corner and they put down one of those 10X10 feet portable dance floors. People had dinner and danced after dinner, but it wasn't the singles bar downstairs by any stretch of the imagination. In the 1970s I played in a duo with a keyboard player and a drum machine. We competed with the 2 guitar and a drum machine duos. We never competed with a 4 piece band and still do not. The duos today sound fuller than the old-fashioned 2 musicians and a drum machine duo, but they do not put anyone out of work.
Playing for free does put people out of work. If the freebie person wasn't there, there would be no entertainment and the club would have to hire someone to keep the audience entertained. Hige difference. So for all of you people who play for free, think about how you would feel if your boss gave you a day off each week without pay because someone, perhaps less talented than you, would do your job for free. And then think about whether you want to do that to a fellow musician or not. There are plenty of non-commercial places you can play for free. When I was young we used to set up in public parks, someone's living room (we even invited friends who would bring food and drink), volunteer for a worthy charity, busk in a public place, and so on. But please don't take the food out of another musician's mouth. It's getting more and more difficult to make a living playing music, please don't make it worse. We do charities, and we play yearly at the Veteran's Administration hospital. It's a 60 mile drive from our house, the parking is terrible, schlepping the gear is a pain, but when we are done, the warm reception and the friendly chats with the wheelchair bound former soldiers make it all worth while. That's much better than playing for free while the club owner, bartender, wait staff, dishwasher, janitor, bookkeeper, host/hostess, and everybody else is making money from your talents. Playing for free is pirating gigs from small time musicians - and that's worse than pirating a rich musician's CD. "So listen up kiddies...if you play bass or drums (or any other instrument) I won't hire you because I have software that does your job for me. But don't you even think about going to a club and playing for cheap because then you are a pirate who is impacting my ability to work there!" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy
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A club owner cuts costs by having an open mic night and thereby avoids paying the musicians. You sell/support software designed to allow musicians to cut costs by eliminating the drummer and/or the bass player and/or others. Isn't that pretty much the same thing?
baloney! if you are using backing tracks to eliminate the cost of other musicians you have no right to complain about a club owner using open mics to eliminate the cost of musicians! Somehow I often see comparisons to BiaB and backing tracks as putting musicians out of work. I play in a duo with backing tracks. The places I play would never hire and have never hired a 4 or more piece band. In most cases the "stage" isn't big enough. Put the duo in a club where a 4-7 piece band normally plays and it doesn't work. Both the sound and the visual impact is lost in a big room. So backing tracks can make a duo sound better, but they aren't putting anyone out of work. We worked the cruise ships for 3 years. We played in the small lounge where duos have always played. The 7 piece band played in the bigger lounge, the orchestra played in the biggest room, and the single played in the piano bar. We play in a couple of yacht and country clubs. They have always used duos for the regular dinner/dance nights, and when it comes to the Commodore's Ball, or the Change of Watch party, we never get the gig, they hire 5 or more pieces. We play every Tuesday at a marina with a deck that perhaps fits 50 people - tops. Since it's outdoors, the overflow people bring lawn chairs or sit at picnic tables in the sun. If a 4 piece band with drums were to set up on the deck, they would lose the seating for a dozen or more people. We played in a hotel that had a big room downstairs and a small room upstairs. The big room held over 100 people and they hired 4 or 5 piece bands. We played upstairs in the small room where we huddled in a corner and they put down one of those 10X10 feet portable dance floors. People had dinner and danced after dinner, but it wasn't the singles bar downstairs by any stretch of the imagination. In the 1970s I played in a duo with a keyboard player and a drum machine. We competed with the 2 guitar and a drum machine duos. We never competed with a 4 piece band and still do not. The duos today sound fuller than the old-fashioned 2 musicians and a drum machine duo, but they do not put anyone out of work.
Playing for free does put people out of work. If the freebie person wasn't there, there would be no entertainment and the club would have to hire someone to keep the audience entertained. Hige difference. So for all of you people who play for free, think about how you would feel if your boss gave you a day off each week without pay because someone, perhaps less talented than you, would do your job for free. And then think about whether you want to do that to a fellow musician or not. There are plenty of non-commercial places you can play for free. When I was young we used to set up in public parks, someone's living room (we even invited friends who would bring food and drink), volunteer for a worthy charity, busk in a public place, and so on. But please don't take the food out of another musician's mouth. It's getting more and more difficult to make a living playing music, please don't make it worse. We do charities, and we play yearly at the Veteran's Administration hospital. It's a 60 mile drive from our house, the parking is terrible, schlepping the gear is a pain, but when we are done, the warm reception and the friendly chats with the wheelchair bound former soldiers make it all worth while. That's much better than playing for free while the club owner, bartender, wait staff, dishwasher, janitor, bookkeeper, host/hostess, and everybody else is making money from your talents. Playing for free is pirating gigs from small time musicians - and that's worse than pirating a rich musician's CD. "So listen up kiddies...if you play bass or drums (or any other instrument) I won't hire you because I have software that does your job for me. But don't you even think about going to a club and playing for cheap because then you are a pirate who is impacting my ability to work there!" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy
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get a plumber to work for four hours on a Sunday night and I will do it for half the price!" this is goin' on my business cards!! (and maybe on a car magnet too) I have never seen a simpler, more succinct statement to illustrate the disconnect between how people appropriate value to musicians as opposed to any other craftsman
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this isn't just a musician thing, BTW... Bayer aspirin still gets a premium price for their product in spite of the fact that there are many off brands of competing generic aspirin.
But they advertise. Ads of that type perform the function called "product differentiation", in which they make the claim of being superior in some way (safer, more controlled, whatever)
1) People won't spend more to get the same quality.. but they WILL spend more for higher quality.
2) Most consumers don't know how to tell the difference.
3) it is a sad truth that most people simply accept what they're told
4) so start an ad campaign of product differentiation by telling the public you are better than the rest.
5) you DO advertise, right?
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I know this is a serious thread, but I can't help wondering if Dire Straits and Mark Knopfler don't have some culpability in all of this.
'Money for nothin' and your....'
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Somehow I often see comparisons to BiaB and backing tracks as putting musicians out of work.
I play in a duo with backing tracks. The places I play would never hire and have never hired a 4 or more piece band. In most cases the "stage" isn't big enough.
Put the duo in a club where a 4-7 piece band normally plays and it doesn't work. Both the sound and the visual impact is lost in a big room.
So backing tracks can make a duo sound better, but they aren't putting anyone out of work.
We worked the cruise ships for 3 years. We played in the small lounge where duos have always played. The 7 piece band played in the bigger lounge, the orchestra played in the biggest room, and the single played in the piano bar.
We play in a couple of yacht and country clubs. They have always used duos for the regular dinner/dance nights, and when it comes to the Commodore's Ball, or the Change of Watch party, we never get the gig, they hire 5 or more pieces.
We play every Tuesday at a marina with a deck that perhaps fits 50 people - tops. Since it's outdoors, the overflow people bring lawn chairs or sit at picnic tables in the sun. If a 4 piece band with drums were to set up on the deck, they would lose the seating for a dozen or more people.
We played in a hotel that had a big room downstairs and a small room upstairs. The big room held over 100 people and they hired 4 or 5 piece bands. We played upstairs in the small room where we huddled in a corner and they put down one of those 10X10 feet portable dance floors. People had dinner and danced after dinner, but it wasn't the singles bar downstairs by any stretch of the imagination.
In the 1970s I played in a duo with a keyboard player and a drum machine. We competed with the 2 guitar and a drum machine duos. We never competed with a 4 piece band and still do not.
The duos today sound fuller than the old-fashioned 2 musicians and a drum machine duo, but they do not put anyone out of work.
Playing for free does put people out of work. If the freebie person wasn't there, there would be no entertainment and the club would have to hire someone to keep the audience entertained.
Hige difference.
So for all of you people who play for free, think about how you would feel if your boss gave you a day off each week without pay because someone, perhaps less talented than you, would do your job for free.
And then think about whether you want to do that to a fellow musician or not.
There are plenty of non-commercial places you can play for free. When I was young we used to set up in public parks, someone's living room (we even invited friends who would bring food and drink), volunteer for a worthy charity, busk in a public place, and so on. But please don't take the food out of another musician's mouth. It's getting more and more difficult to make a living playing music, please don't make it worse.
We do charities, and we play yearly at the Veteran's Administration hospital. It's a 60 mile drive from our house, the parking is terrible, schlepping the gear is a pain, but when we are done, the warm reception and the friendly chats with the wheelchair bound former soldiers make it all worth while.
That's much better than playing for free while the club owner, bartender, wait staff, dishwasher, janitor, bookkeeper, host/hostess, and everybody else is making money from your talents.
Playing for free is pirating gigs from small time musicians - and that's worse than pirating a rich musician's CD.
"So listen up kiddies...if you play bass or drums (or any other instrument) I won't hire you because I have software that does your job for me. But don't you even think about going to a club and playing for cheap because then you are a pirate who is impacting my ability to work there!" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy Hey I found you a replacement for that $300 gig...trouble is this one is $300/month! http://goo.gl/E5TPra
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 05/20/14 09:59 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2008
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this song touches on several different recent threads... product differentiation... the choice to self promote instead of accepting a lesser deal from the studios... Ani DiFranco: "the Million You Never Made" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTWJ37DAhoY caution: contains at least one F bomb
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Joined: Mar 2004
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OP
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Powerful piece of writing Pat.
Thanks for the post.
Later,
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,463
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Wow..... somebody's having a bad day...... Take a few seconds and watch this short video...... Good advice feel better now?
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 05/20/14 01:14 PM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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