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The great news is, I finally have my studio completely set up, essentially for the first time ever, including a subwoofer that has sat idle for over two years. All of the important software is installed and I'm ready to go.
The issue is low-level static and a medium-pitched whine (not 60 Hz, but maybe an upper harmonic) in my main speakers. It's not apparent when music is playing at a conversational level, but is noticeable in a quiet room, and bothersome during quiet passages of music.
Except for incandescent replacements, there are no fluorescent lights or dimmers in the house. I have ruled out the cable modem and wireless router in the room, which can't be moved anyway.
All of the AC except the sub is plugged into a single surge suppressor, including the DAW, mixer, headphone amp, video monitors, speakers, and Roland VG-88. The only things running now are the DAW, dual monitors, and speakers. The sub is plugged into a separate surge suppressor on the same outlet pair as everything else.
My control, signal, and power lines are a rat's nest, and I know I need to work on that. What else, in your collective opinion, needs doing?
Thanks in advance,
Richard
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Have you tried the most simple but most time-consuming test: unplug all cables?
First set: Have only power amp and speakers working? Is the whine still there?
If not, plug in one more cable. Continue and: When does it start? And then it still might not be that certain cable. It might be a combination of cables that only starts to induce said whine when the last one is connected.
If yes: The source of the whine is something that affects either amp, or speaker cables, or the speaker itself. Maybe it is only a bad connector.
Last edited by GHinCH; 09/16/14 01:47 AM.
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No, I haven't done that yet. I should be able to today. The speaks and sub (Behringer TRUTH B2031A and JBL PSW-D110) are active, so there is no separate power amp.
I did D/C the PreSonus AudioBox USB line from the DAW and the noise completely stopped. Does that localize it to the PC? If so, what then?
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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You may be experiencing an earth loop through the signal chain. USB is a current loop standard: 2 wires are 0 and +5V, the other two are the current loop signal path, if the 0V is also connected through to the signal path earth/ground connection (unbalanced -ve/earth or balanced shield) through the Presonus then simply disconnecting elsewhere in the signal path (lift the shield at one end of a balanced connection?) should eliminate the noise. PC's are a dreadful source of noise... Of course there are a couple of assumptions here that may not be correct... I can't see whether you said or not, but if the DAW is a notebook some models (as in my HP) have the earth from the mains connected through the charger into the ground plane of the PC. Disconnecting the charger from the PC (so it's running on battery) would eliminate the noise if that is the source. Also, CFL lamp replacements are still Fluorescents (as I'm sure you know). I've found that LED's are far superior, but you usually need to shop around to find them at a resonable price, retailers are still price gougeing on them 
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya  --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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My DAW is a full tower PC with a self contained power supply. It is shielded on all sides but the bottom.
I'll have to check on the type of ceiling light in my room. How do you do an earth/ground lift on a USB line?
There is a Cat 5 Ethernet line running through the rat's nest behind my studio desk. Could that be a source of interference?
ETA: There is a laptop in the room. It's on another outlet and surge suppressor, but presumably on the same breaker.
Last edited by Ryszard; 09/16/14 03:17 AM. Reason: Add information
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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My DAW is a full tower PC with a self contained power supply. It is shielded on all sides but the bottom.
I'll assume it is a normal steel case so the bottom will also be shielded by the metal of the case which is grounded through the PSU
I'll have to check on the type of ceiling light in my room. How do you do an earth/ground lift on a USB line?
You don't, it would have to be done in a common signal path somewhere.
There is a Cat 5 Ethernet line running through the rat's nest behind my studio desk. Could that be a source of interference?
Anythng is posible, but I doubt it. You are talking RF signals of more than 10MHz. Actually it's probably at least 100MHz. Something you might try: leave the Presonus plugged in on the audio side, but UNplug the USB cable (I assume it doesn't use the USB cable for power?) Hmm, thinking about a ground lift on USB, if the Presonus IS externally powered it might be possible to disconnect the power wires in the USB cable at one end. Only possible downside is if the USB interface itself needs to be powered by the USB cable...
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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My DAW is a full tower PC with a self contained power supply. It is shielded on all sides but the bottom.
I'll assume it is a normal steel case so the bottom will also be shielded by the metal of the case which is grounded through the PSU No. Unusually, it's open on the bottom as an air intake. Weird.
I'll have to check on the type of ceiling light in my room. How do you do an earth/ground lift on a USB line?
You don't, it would have to be done in a common signal path somewhere.
There is a Cat 5 Ethernet line running through the rat's nest behind my studio desk. Could that be a source of interference?
Anythng is posible, but I doubt it. You are talking RF signals of more than 10MHz. Actually it's probably at least 100MHz. Something you might try: leave the Presonus plugged in on the audio side, but UNplug the USB cable (I assume it doesn't use the USB cable for power?) Hmm, thinking about a ground lift on USB, if the Presonus IS externally powered it might be possible to disconnect the power wires in the USB cable at one end. Only possible downside is if the USB interface itself needs to be powered by the USB cable... The AudioBox receives both signal and power via USB.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Hmm, thinking about a ground lift on USB, if the Presonus IS externally powered it might be possible to disconnect the power wires in the USB cable at one end. Only possible downside is if the USB interface itself needs to be powered by the USB cable...
The AudioBox receives both signal and power via USB. Hmm, disappointing. Oh well, that just makes it a little harder. I would look for another place in the signal chain to do the ground lift.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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I have the behringer 2030a just got secondhand a few months ago, I think you replies to a thread of mine on Here Ryszard, not too sure if I remember correctly but I have a vague recollection that you said that you had cables in an unbalanced configuration, maybe I remember wrong and it was somebody else.
Anyways I had the same type of hum on speakers, didn't get or felt it wouldn't help to get balanced cables from interface to monitors.
Tested an old cable that I had lying around and hey presto it seemed to cure it, so got the balanced cables on ebay for £15.
I would say hum and noise is gone now even when I turn speakers to full volume, maybe a little background static, which is probably normal enough.
Balanced cables seem to have solved my problem. Hope you can cure yours as easily.
Musiclover
Last edited by musiclover; 09/16/14 04:18 AM.
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"My control, signal, and power lines are a rat's nest, and I know I need to work on that."
I would start with that rat's nest. Disconnect and bundle like-wires together with cable ties - audio with audio, etc. Get any AC wiring away from audio cables. If you cannot keep AC wires completely separate from audio cabling, cross them at a 90 degree angle - do not run them parallel to audio cabling.
As Musiclover said, I would also invest in some quality balanced cabling. Good luck.
Regards,
Bob
p.s. I hope I'm not being condescending and telling you something that you already know.
Last edited by 90 dB; 09/16/14 04:54 AM. Reason: p.s.
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Ryszard, One of the reasons I got rid of my PreSonus Firebox (basically a firewire version of your Audiobox) is that there was two internal signal issues with it - which turned out to be somewhat common after perusing their support forums: 1. Signal bleed from headphone output (no mics being used) into the input channels. I never realized it was an issue until final mix-down of a song that I blew through in a day. Here's the song: https://soundcloud.com/rockstar_not/scott-lake-rest-ye-orion listen to the very tail end of the song. If you turn up the playback enough, you'll hear my click-track. No microphones were used in the recording process 2. The second issue was that there was a very high pitched whine on the input pre-amps, when turned up to the last 20% or so of gain. Again, an issue that I found out was common through the threads, but after my warranty period expired. I would estimate the frequency at 8kHz or above. I no longer have that device - I sold it after my fire-wire equipped lappy went south permanently. I hope that your situation is not the same and that you simply have some grounding issues to contend with. Other sources of whine to be mindful of: 1. Some laptops LCD backlight is controlled by a pulse-width-modulated control circuit which can induce whine over the USB. We had some Thinkpad T-series laptops at work which exhibited this issue. 2. Other stuff on your USB - try to eliminate as much off of the USB as possible, including any powered ports. The power supplies on those are usually crappy switching jobs, and they can make headaches for noise on the supply of the USB, which depending on how well the audio interface is designed to reject incoming noise on the USB, may cause issues. -Scott
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Take the first simple step again: replace cables, It is cheaper to change a 5 dollar cable than a 100 dollar gadget. While there may be many sources for corrupting your signal, a bad connection might be a probable cause.
If it is not the cable, the next step that I would take is: take that box to a different location in the studio, even if it means longer cables for the test.
Eliminate the cheapest and easiest accesible sources of noise first. It is not always the most expensive part, Murphy's milage may vary.
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Thank you all. I have several things to try now. Some are from checking the PreSonus site. It is not complete, and they are in no particular order.
1. Replace the USB cable.
2. Make sure it's not plugged into a USB 3 socket.
3. Isolate the PC. (I may try a ground lift there.)
4. Reroute control, power, and signal lines as appropriate.
5. Replace the sound card. (That would be kind of okay since I'd like to upgrade to one with a S/PDIF output so I could use the Focusrite(?) VRM speaker emulator with my headphones.)
There is more, but this will keep me busy for a while. I'll keep you posted.
R.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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If the distance between our locations wouldn't be that long, I'd take a case of beer and come help. I like this kind of challenge.
Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
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R, ofttimes, cheap cabling can be a culprit. I think you're on the right trail, Tonto, now it's perseverance you'll need. Some noise problems would peeve Job (not Steven).
Best to you on finding a solution.
I'm sorely tempted to hire Guido, if only for the beer und shashlik. lol
Personally, I suspect a earth (ground) loop.
Maybe I've missed it, but do we know the hum frequency? That would help isolate PSU or mains. Does it sound like your Barber's clippers (mains) or a harmonic thereof (PSU)?
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If the distance between our locations wouldn't be that long, I'd take a case of beer and come help. I like this kind of challenge. Come on down! I've got a case of Spaten Optimator in the fridge. We may not get it fixed, but we won't be feeling any pain!
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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R, ofttimes, cheap cabling can be a culprit. I think you're on the right trail, Tonto, now it's perseverance you'll need. Some noise problems would peeve Job (not Steven).
Best to you on finding a solution.
I'm sorely tempted to hire Guido, if only for the beer und shashlik. lol
Personally, I suspect a earth (ground) loop.
Maybe I've missed it, but do we know the hum frequency? That would help isolate PSU or mains. Does it sound like your Barber's clippers (mains) or a harmonic thereof (PSU)? Don, cabling is the first thing. I'll see whether I can find a more heavily shielded USB cable for the AudioBox. I also remembered that I have another sound card (TASCAM US-224) that I had used on my laptop. If the latest drivers (XP/Vista 64-bit from 2007) work I may have something. The tone is definitely a musical note. I'll zero in on it and report that, too. Thanks, guys!
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Thank you all. I have several things to try now. Some are from checking the PreSonus site. It is not complete, and they are in no particular order.
1. Replace the USB cable.
2. Make sure it's not plugged into a USB 3 socket.
3. Isolate the PC. (I may try a ground lift there.)
4. Reroute control, power, and signal lines as appropriate.
5. Replace the sound card. (That would be kind of okay since I'd like to upgrade to one with a S/PDIF output so I could use the Focusrite(?) VRM speaker emulator with my headphones.)
There is more, but this will keep me busy for a while. I'll keep you posted.
For the most part this sound reasonable, BUT, I am very uncomfortable with #3. I hope you are not considering a MAINS ground lift. IMHO that is potentially a very dangerous thing. FWIW I'm ALWAYS nervous when people start talking about lifting pretective earths from inside mains powered equipment. Double insulated is one thing, but your PC has a metallic case.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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I appreciate the concern, Lawrie. How would you feel about this--a one-time test using a two-prong adapter to see whether that does it? If so, I could buy a proper isolator. If not, I remove the adapter and proceed with other steps. It's a quick, simple approach, if you approve. That's a question, so I look forward to hearing back from you.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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In the US, our mains are 120v, 60 Hz, meaning that the first order harmonic is 120 Hz (2x 60 Hz), or roughly equivalent to key 27 on a standard 88 key piano. Musical indeed.
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