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Scott and Jim,
Thanks, those both look great. A friend of mine took chord-scale theory at coursera.org, Gary Burton was the instructor! I didn't know they had a mixing course as well, that's perfect. I do like courses that let me go at my own pace, so the other course looks good as well.
Lots of good information keeps coming, thanks again to all!
Windows 11, Intel Core I5 10400, 16 gig ram, Scarlett 2i2, Sony Acid Music Studio 10, BIAB 2020 UltraPlus Pak
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To my ears, everybody else's stuff sounds better produced than mine. .... Herb, I definitely like the sound of your tracks, and you've made the Top Ten on SC, that's pretty good. ...... I could've used a plugin and done more harm than good. Classes in mixing would be nice, that's not going to happen either. It's good to know most of you feel that I'm somewhere in the ballpark with my mixes, that is encouraging. I will give Ozone a trial run. Do most of you use the package that sells for $200 or Ozone Advanced that goes for $$$? Herb, what do you use?
I think I've had the hardest time getting vocals to sound good and fit in the mix. I don't want my songs on the Net at this point, but I have some throwaway tunes, I can put one on Soundclick. I use Waves Renaissance Vox and Ambience on vocals, I've never been thrilled with the results but my singing ain't much to write home about either.
Great thread, thanks to all for input!
Everybody else's mixes sound better.... it's probably psychological for the most part but.... as you learn to mix and produce things will definitely turn around. With time and effort, it's not hard to produce nice sounding mixes. I'd rather have a top ten on the Billboard.... Classes in mixing are not necessary. I never had any. Simply mix, mix, mix and then mix some more. Not only your stuff but grab some other folks stuff and mix that. There are mix contests going on all the time that post up free tracks for download..... grab them and even if you don't get in the contests, mix the tracks for more experience. POST your music in the forums for the software you use. I like to post in the more "technical" forums.... For example, Sonar has a songs forum for users of the Cakewalk line of products and the folks there are focused on the recording aspect of the music. Good ears, astute observations, and great feedback that helps you improve your craft. The User Showcase here in PG can also be used the same way..... but you probably need to ask for specific "Mixing" critiques to get in depth analysis of your production and mixing chops. You asked what I use. I use Ozone 3 and Ozone 4. I haven't upgraded nor have I considered Alloy. I DL'd the trial of ALLOY and found it pretty similar to O3 & O4. Ozone has presets based on numerous scenarios for instruments and vocals that will give you a great starting point so that you don't have to reinvent the wheel. Most of my custom presets are tweeks made from one of the O4 presets that I saved. One bit of advice I will offer: Less is more. Most of my tracks are recorded and remain dry. I use buss groups in Sonar and that's generally where I place the plugins I use. The master buss also has plugs that effect the entire mix..... generally one of the O4 presets and a light Studioverb2 (cakewalk) reverb. Vocals tend to get an O4 preset for vox and occasionally verb. Instrument tracks often just get some EQ and nothing else. It's better IMHO to have a clean vocal performance that shows some warts rather than to try to cover it and hide behind a bunch of FX. It's when you can clearly hear the vocals, that you can work on getting better. Melodyne is a neat fix for vocals. You can easily fix the pitchy parts and since it shows you the "blobs" as they call it, you can learn to sing better because you can actually "see" some of the bad habits you are using to try to "fake" being better. Melodyne Editor and Ozone 4 are my main 2 fx plugs. Beside them, I use a couple of cakewalk default fx for EQ & verb. But in reality, that's about all I really use on a consistent basis in my music. The main thing is to mix, study, get feedback and mix some more. Hope that helps a bit.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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To my ears, everybody else's stuff sounds better produced than mine. 90 db, is that the RealTrack horn section on "I'm your Man?" I've been trying to find a way to use that RT. Very nice. Herb....,
(quote not verbatim)   Yeah, that's the BIAB horn section. Regards, Bob
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Just to clarify, Alloy isn't supposed to sound different than Ozone; it's only supposed to work differently. Alloy is good for use while mixing because it's light on computer resources. Ozone is better used on mastering a final stereo audio file.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Just to clarify, Alloy isn't supposed to sound different than Ozone; it's only supposed to work differently. Alloy is good for use while mixing because it's light on computer resources. Ozone is better used on mastering a final stereo audio file. In our world..... it doesn't really matter how things work so much as how it sounds. So, if it doesn't sound any different..... why bother to get it if you have Ozone? That was my main issue with Alloy. I didn't hear any difference worth paying the $200+ cost of entry so I simply passed on the deal and removed the demo. To someone who didn't have Ozone, perhaps it would be a fine deal.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Why? That's a fair question. It may not be clear from reading Izotope's description, but it becomes clear when you use them in a larger multitrack project. You can put Alloy on each track of a mix if you want to. Ozone will overload your CPU after being loaded on just a few tracks. If you only use Ozone, you can apply it destructively a track at a time but it's nice to be able to adjust sounds on the fly, non destructively, during playback of a full mix. Alloy is for mixing. Ozone is for mastering.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Smaller footprint ....sounds reasonable.
I use a workaround and place Ozone in busses. I set up a vox buss and use it there. Not as precise as one instance per track.... but in most cases, for my purposes, it really doesn't have to be. Often, all the BGV's will be treated generally the same way, so a buss instance works for me.
Aside from having a computer that I have never been able to choke with plugins..... I tend to have around 6 to 8 plugs and rarely more than 10 to 12 in a huge project. The majority of those are cake defaults and very light on the processing end of things. I know Ozone and Melodyne are the "big ones" and sometimes have 2 or 3 O4's in the project. Melodyne is always applied destructively to the tracks immediately after the work with it is accomplished.
But, yes, I can see how Alloy might work for some folks in that manner.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I'm closing in on a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 on eBay. There are plenty there, I should be able to get one for $150 or less. I'm also looking at Sony Sound Forge Pro 11 because it includes Ozone plus Nectar Elements. However the main reason Sound Forge Pro is so attractive to me is that Sony Acid is my DAW, I know it has its critics but I've been using it for eight years and I know the interface well. I've tried to learn RealBand or Reaper but it just ain't gonna happen. I do use Realband for certain tasks, I just don't know it well.
Windows 11, Intel Core I5 10400, 16 gig ram, Scarlett 2i2, Sony Acid Music Studio 10, BIAB 2020 UltraPlus Pak
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I'm closing in on a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 on eBay. There are plenty there, I should be able to get one for $150 or less. I'm also looking at Sony Sound Forge Pro 11 because it includes Ozone plus Nectar Elements. However the main reason Sound Forge Pro is so attractive to me is that Sony Acid is my DAW, I know it has its critics but I've been using it for eight years and I know the interface well. I've tried to learn RealBand or Reaper but it just ain't gonna happen. I do use Realband for certain tasks, I just don't know it well. Sony Acid is a terrific DAW. Underrated, I think. I used it for years. Very intuitive and easy to work with. I switched interfaces about a year ago - Focusrite Scarlett 8i6. It is nice, but I came close to sending it back... I had recorded using 16 bit prior to that (a Gina20 PCI interface) with no problems. When I hooked up the Scarlett, the recordings were awful - noise, noise, noise... spent hours trying to figure out why - email Focusrite, searched the internet, hours, frustration... and finally came across an old forum post somewhere that mentioned having problems with 16 bit. Changed Acid to record at 24 bit, and the problem went away. A bit perturbed that that was nowhere to be found on the Focurite site, but.... Haven't had any problems since.... Just a heads-up...
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<Changed Acid to record at 24 bit, and the problem went <away. A bit perturbed that that was nowhere to be found on <the Focurite site, but....
Thanks, Floyd, might save me many hours. I tried 24/96 briefly but I had some problems and just went back to 16/44 without troubleshooting. But I'd like to get into 24/96, hopefully it will work fine for me with Scarlett as it did for you.
Windows 11, Intel Core I5 10400, 16 gig ram, Scarlett 2i2, Sony Acid Music Studio 10, BIAB 2020 UltraPlus Pak
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He didn't say 24/96 he just said 24.
24/48 or 24/44.1 are also viable choices, and preferred for many. My guess is Acid defaulted to one of these two settings.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Yes, I typically record in 24/44.1 for the extra headroom with little file space penalty.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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