I'm fully aware that many popular artists sing about subjects or events that have never happened to them. A writer wrote a good song that they sing.
I find it hard to write about things that didn't happen to me. Not because it would be difficult, but because I fear people may think that's me, or my story!
Have any of you run into this?
I get the "best songs are written about events that happen to you" mentality; but that's not what I'm talking about, to be clear up front.
Thanks
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
SOME people assumed that Johnny Cash did hard time in prison because he wrote songs from the viewpoint of a prisoner. Other people knew better. I guess one way to steer away from people who choose to make the wrong conclusion is to write the song in a viewpoint other than the first person.
I don't much worry about what conclusions people draw from my songs. The people that matter already know who and what I am.
It is my job to write songs and to a certain extent it is really none of my business what other people think about my songs.
I "hope" I write a good song every now and then. I like some of the songs I have written and I think some of my songs are just not good at all.
I write songs at times to other peoples request about subject matter I have no direct connection to.
Yes, my wife ask me now and then " was that about me?"
The answer is yes dear or no dear, what ever the case may be.
I have written songs about outer space and for sure have never been there.
There are many strange ways of expressing things that wind up in songs for many reasons.
"The force that through the green fuse drives the flower" which is a Dylan Thomas line is a strange but cool way to express something.
My advice....just write...what ever comes to mind for what ever reason.
Some people will love it, some will hate it, most people will be so busy with their own life that they will not pay much attention to the words to begin with.
Just be you cause anything you write will be of value to someone.
Like Keith said, I know who I am and I like me...most of the time...lol
Cheers,
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 07/22/1511:39 AM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
I was going through some old songs I wrote or at least I think I wrote. That really bad when I can't remember if I wrote something or not...lol
Anyway..I came across these lyrics by Bob Dylan.
The motorcycle black madonna Two-wheeled gypsy queen And her silver-studded phantom cause The gray flannel dwarf to scream As he weeps to wicked birds of prey Who pick up on his bread crumb sins And there are no sins inside the Gates of Eden
I would love to be able to express things in this manner. I got no idea how to learn to do that.
Other strange lyrics I think I wrote....not sure
Speed Of Light
Moving at the speed of light to the places I’ve yet to reach
Shadows vague and fleeting searching for the things that they teach
The time and space that soundround me appears in phantom light
The cosmic rush confounds me in the flames that it excites
Cheers,
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 07/22/1501:30 PM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
Dust on the floor.... based somewhat on the reality of things I know and experinced
Footsteps in the hall: made up
Where does a cowboy go: made up
Rainy day: made up
come & go: made up
Missing person: made up
Ought to count: made up
Ode to Wolf: Wolf was a good buddy...this one is first hand personal experience.
Give me a chance: made up
All these things: bible stories brought this one about
Oil on the water: explosion of the deepwater horizon oil rig but the rest of it is made up.
So essentially I set down to write and think up a good story line or idea and work from that, not caring a whit what anyone thinks about the results. My wife has asked me where a particular idea comes from.... and I tell her the truth.... I either made up the entire idea for the song like a writer of fiction or I saw someone else go through something and it triggered my sense of observation to come up with the song about it.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
One stumbling block I had for a long time was that I wasn't comfortable writing "fiction". For some reason, I got it stuck in my head that what I wrote had to be "real".
But people don't listen to songs to find out about the songwriter. They're listening so they can be caught up in the emotion of the song.
That's something that distinguishes a song from a story. Unlike a story, a song doesn't really need to come to a conclusion - it just needs to lead you to the point of eliciting that emotional response.
It's natural to start from things you know. And because of that, you might feel some obligation to stay true to the source, because you're thinking about real people.
But in order to more effectively manipulate the feelings of the listener, to craft something that's larger than life, details are changed and facts are altered. The goal of the song isn't to relate a truthful story, but instead emotionally engage the listener.
That's a hard step to take, because it means that the song isn't about ourselves, or people that we care about, or even the details of something that happened. All of these can be replaced by a "better" version, if it serves to create a stronger emotional effect on the listener.
Some people can easily make that transition, but I've found this a problem when writing. I guess I'm just a bit too full of myself for my own good.
I view the art of songwriting as inspirational thinking. Whereas, the task of songwriting is structured and can be learned and mastered over time. Songwriters play over chord progressions and melodies looking for inspiration and they're always listening for hooks and phrases wherever they may be to inspire their next song.
One can experience events on an imaginary trip to Hawaii they could never do in 'real' life. The same in a song. Our imagination allows us to experience in our mind events we never have, never would or never could in real life. Paraplegics can walk and the blind can see in song.
When someone says the artist must write about subjects or events that have happened to them, none of the Bee Gees were in the "New York Mining Disaster of 1941" nor did Elton John and Bernie Taupin travel to space with the song "Rocket Man" but with imagination, each developed a theme that resonated with millions of people.
A very successful songwriter quote is, "never let the truth get in the way of a good story".
The only thing you have to watch is if you are planning on pitching the song to other artists. Then their image comes into play and you have to pay attention to that and notice it in the type songs they cut. Most artists won't cut a song that puts the singer in a bad light and this is especially true in country.
The Johnny Cash thing made me laugh because I was one of the people that thought he did hard time, I think having heard that. I think his overall persona at the time helped with that!
Quote:
I don't write but I sing tunes which catch my attention. I have had my wife say to me "stop singing that tune, it makes me sound awful!"
This is the kind of thing I am hoping to avoid! I feel like (as an example) I wrote a song about cheating, inspired by Blake and Miranda's sudden divorce but not naming them, people may think I'm saying MY wife is a cheater!
That being said, I think I just need to get passed it. I don't want to limit myself that way.
Thank you!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
A very successful songwriter quote is, "never let the truth get in the way of a good story".
The only thing you have to watch is if you are planning on pitching the song to other artists. Then their image comes into play and you have to pay attention to that and notice it in the type songs they cut. Most artists won't cut a song that puts the singer in a bad light and this is especially true in country.
Agreed! I had this conversation with my wife and Carrie Underwood's "Think Before He Cheats" was on the radio. I said "See, I would have not written a song like this." A long story made short, I'm not worrying about it any more
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
I'm not crazy about that song but when you listen to When He Cheats notice how the songwriters made sure to put in this:
"I might've saved a little trouble for the next girl, 'Cause the next time that he cheats... Oh, you know it won't be on me!
No... not on me"
If they'd left this out, she'd just be ranting and acting like a crazy woman so they added the positive spin. So she's tearing up his stuff BUT she's a strong woman concerned about other women. Image.
I'm not crazy about that song but when you listen to When He Cheats notice how the songwriters made sure to put in this:
"I might've saved a little trouble for the next girl, 'Cause the next time that he cheats... Oh, you know it won't be on me!
No... not on me"
If they'd left this out, she'd just be ranting and acting like a crazy woman so they added the positive spin. So she's tearing up his stuff BUT she's a strong woman concerned about other women. Image.
It's interesting you feel that makes it a positive spin. I still think it makes her sound a bit crazy. I do know what you mean though, so don't take my statement as judgement.
In fact, I've actually told this song to people as though it was a story about "a guy I know of who" did everything in this song to a girl. People's reactions when they thought it was a guy doing this to a girl...wow!! SO different!
Let's just say they didn't feel what "he did" was justified just because she cheated on him! I've had MANY people say "could you blame her?! Who would want to be with a guy like that!!"
You might find this interesting...
People are interesting!
Last edited by HearToLearn; 07/23/1505:53 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
I'm fully aware that many popular artists sing about subjects or events that have never happened to them.
I read some other responses so I'll chime in....
I write from both perspectives. Some of my songs do reflect personal experience (IE: my VN picnic, a non-preachy philosophical POV or life lessons/thoughts) but most are of subjects I've found interesting to write about. My subjects of choice are not reflective of just one safe lyrical genre. Song writing is creative therapy for me.
IMO... That's what creative writing is. Being able to express oneself on a chosen subject of interest with well thought out lyrics and more importantly non-cliched story lines. I think it's a skill that is developed over time with practice. My opinion means nothing in the commercial music world but I'm quite bored with most contemporary music but admittedly I'm old and jaded in my subjectivity and genre of preference.
To each their own. I'd say write about any subject one chooses and enjoy the process. The outside world (especially those outside our personal orbit) can determine it's merit or appeal. Whether the writer actually experienced the lyrical content or not becomes irrelevant.
EDIT: as an example my song Dark Forest...I've never lived in Medieval times but I've read enough history and felt I knew enough English to write a song about it. (from a concept collaboration project)
As I said I'm not crazy about that song - to be completely clear I don't like it and never have. It's too over the top and out there for me. I was just trying to show you what the songwriters did to try and make it not totally trash her image since as lunatic as she comes off it would've been even more so without those lines added.
There are always exceptions in this or that song that was a hit for anything anyone tells you about songwriting that can be brought out for debate.
I don't have anything else to add. I'm off to Golden Ear Training. Great critical listening exercise.
I am a song writer, but never said I was a good one. I like some songs I have written but think most of them are just not very good.
I write songs for others to their demands and about subject matter they want so I have no choice if it was something I had experience with or not.
The strangest part of all that is the stuff I think is the worst thing I have ever written is stuff I often get the most positive feed back on...Go figure
I had a conversation with T-Bone Walker one day about Stormy Monday and he said he did a ton of stuff better than that and never understood why it became such a hit. We had a chuckle when I told him I hope I never have to play it again. Sick of it....lol Having said that I caught myself playing those inside T-Bone chords right out of Stormy Monday the other night for no reason at all.
Actually I know why....I miss the real deal blues people I have had the privilege to play with, and eat Bar B Q with, and go to weddings with and on and on.
I like living and I am a very happy person but I will be glad when I die. I want to see my friends.
Cheers,
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
I write about personal experience only because that's all I can do. If people listen to tap into the emotion of a song, how much more real can the emotion be about loving a woman who doesn't love you back so much that it hurts your heart? That was Wasting My Time. And another plea to make her aware that I was the best guy she will ever know. That was I'm The One. Or when I quit drinking (I REALLY needed to do that!), and why I quit. That was Many Years Ago. Second Chance was after the car crash when I realized that you really don't know when your life will end.
If I tried to write songs about other people's lives or mythical things, I couldn't put myself into the situation and the lyrics would not have the sense of sincerity that lyrics need.
As far as Underwood's song, any way you look at it that song promoted domestic violence and because of that song I will never listen to her music again.
The motorcycle black madonna Two-wheeled gypsy queen And her silver-studded phantom cause The gray flannel dwarf to scream As he weeps to wicked birds of prey Who pick up on his bread crumb sins And there are no sins inside the Gates of Eden
I would love to be able to express things in this manner. I got no idea how to learn to do that. Moving at the speed of light to the places I’ve yet to reach
Billy
Bob Dylan =Shakespeare IMO
Did you ever see " Don't look back" the documentary about his visit to the UK in the late 60's.
Here he does this scene where he is talking to a wall or a shop window- making songs up right there and then. He takes the top rational bit off his mind and it just flows out. Too much reasoning, too much explaining, makes for a bad song IMO.
If the OP, were writing a novel, and a character said/felt XYZ then would this mean that the novelist is like this? I think-knot.
I used De Bono to free my mind from explanations - Beyond Yes and No.
You got to be brave when you write, not give a damn, but still care deeply. Dylan was a master at this.
I love "To Ramona" a song about a girl losing someone close....
To Ramona"
Ramona, come closer Shut softly your watery eyes The pangs of your sadness Will pass as your senses will rise The flowers of the city Though breathlike, get deathlike at times And there's no use in tryin' To deal with the dyin' Though I cannot explain that in lines.
Your cracked country lips I still wish to kiss As to be by the strength of you skin Your magnetic movements Still capture the minutes I'm in But it grieves my heart, love To see you tryin' to be a part of A world that just don't existv It's all just a dream, babe A vacuum, a scheme, babe That sucks you into feelin' like this.
I can see that your head Has been twisted and fed With worthless foam from the mouth I can tell you are torn Between stayin' and returnin' Back to the South You've been fooled into thinking That the finishin' end is at hand Yet there's no one to beat you No one to defeat you 'Cept the thoughts of yourself feeling bad
I've heard you say many times That you're better 'n no one And no one is better 'n you If you really believe that You know you have Nothing to win and nothing to lose From fixtures and forces and friends Your sorrow does stem That hype you and type you Making you feel That you gotta be just like them.
I'd forever talk to you But soon my words They would turn into a meaningless ring For deep in my heart I know there is no help I can bring Everything passes Everything changes Just do what you think you should do And someday, maybe Who knows, baby I'll come and be cryin' to you
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