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Hi all,
For years, I've struggled to remember the chords to pop songs. While I have the facility to read chord symbols and play them fluently - take the sheet music away and I'm toast lol
I have a friend whose fingers seem to go to the right chord simply by recalling the melody of a song he has listened to many times - even if he did not play it before....I WANT THAT SKILL... I've always felt there was a large genetic "natural talent" component involved. Note that he has not spend and inordinate amount of time with traditional "Ear Training" exercises.
Certainly part of it is due to the fact that he learned piano at an early age - which I think requires a deeper understanding of chords and harmony than does guitar (I expect some of you to disagree here - that's ok : )
For an analytical, memorization type of person like myself, I'm looking for the most efficient practice method to commit the chords to pop songs to memory so that the execution of the song takes almost no conscious thoughts - the fingers simply motorically know where to go next.
I'm wondering if this goal can only be done via motor practice (e.g. just do the same song over and over) - but I'm not sure that would help my fingers go to the right places when figuring out a new song by ear - a skill which I'd also like to acquire. Can both skills be acquired at the same time with the right practice routine ?
Thanks in advance,
Joe V.
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Hi, Joe.. This is just "a guess" and I'm just throwing it out there to consider... The "problem" (if you choose to call it that) might be "who you are" and your expectations. You approach everything (an observation - and a generalization) from SUCH an analytic angle, you may be "blocking" your ability to "learn naturally" - in a relaxed manner that allows that to become a part of you... I learned to pick out chords (age 14-15..) by sitting in front of the radio all night long tuned to WLS in Chicago (I lived in PA) and playing along to everything I heard - strumming and trying different chords until I hit what sounded right...Song after song after song...night after night after night... eventually, that ability to "know what's coming next" just becomes "a part of you" - most pop song from any era are all fairly similar, so you are playing the same chord groupings all the time... When you learn "by ear" and "by feel", you don't expect someone to put some method in front of you to follow so you can learn to do it - in fact, you cringe at the thought... Constantly searching for "the secret" - expecting to have that lesson plan laid out in front of you - might lead to a sort of "fear" of NOT having it there - which would make learning by-ear-by-feel quite difficult...I would think... Just some thoughts - and I could be COMPLETELY wrong. I love to read manuals myself - coding, small engines, electrical wiring, whatever... but, put a piece of sheet music in front of me and my mind seizes... So... Put a record on the turntable (  ), drop the needle, grab your guitar and start poking around until you hit the right chord (or something close)... then continue that for roughly 10,000 hours...
Last edited by floyd jane; 07/28/15 05:28 AM.
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Hi all,
Certainly part of it is due to the fact that he learned piano at an early age - which I think requires a deeper understanding of chords and harmony than does guitar (I expect some of you to disagree here - that's ok : )
Joe V. I will respectfully disagree agree with you not as only a guitarist but also for all instrumentalists. I do know unfortunately how one would think like that. Piano teachers, at least the good ones, add music theory to the lessons. Thus many pianists have that advantage. I teach guitar and bass but I add music theory to my lessons so my students get a firm theory background along with learning their instrument. It really helps the student. All music teachers should add music theory to the lessons. Monophonic instrumentalists should learn chords and theory so when they jam they have a better understanding on what to play and what not to play. Floyd hit the nail on the head! The only way to learn how to pick out chords is to listen, practice repeat many times. After a fashion you will get the idea that chords come in patterns most all of the time. Start with a I-IV-V7 progression, many 50's rock songs use this progression as well as a lot of blues, the progress to the more complicated progressions. Good luck.
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Joe,
A hybrid approach to what is pointed out above AND doing what is natural to you - an analytical approach, might work for you.
Part of this is ear training for chord types. For me, I remember that when I started to hear add2 chords in several keyboard parts of Journey songs in the early 80s, I knew I wanted to learn what made 'that sound'. I told my piano teacher and she put me on a serious chord theory diet, tying 'the sound' with the chord structures and inversions.
You can train your ear to identify chords and inversions of chords with enough ear training. If you want to focus on pop songs - do this:
Get a reasonably trustworthy chord chart for 1 song you want to learn. Pick a chart that has more than just the basic chords in it - look for more complicated chords identified.
Play along with it using the chords identified. Get that song down. Then, start messing around by simplifying the chords and listen to how the song becomes more hollow and less interesting, then add the decoration notes back in. Go back and forth with this and your ear will develop the ability to identify the right chords. Find another song with a different feel. Repeat the above.
This worked for me, and I think that you and I share some tendencies in learning style. I've shown this technique to some others in the past while teaching guitar. Some people can't do this - like learning a foreign language, there are some that can't get their voice to take on the natural accent spoken by native speakers. I have a theory that this inability to mimic also ties in with ear-training capability. But I have nothing to go on with that theory, but I have noticed that people that can pull off speaking foreign languages with natural accents also make pretty good ear-training capable musicians.
-Scott
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I've shown this technique to some others in the past while teaching guitar. Some people can't do this - like learning a foreign language, there are some that can't get their voice to take on the natural accent spoken by native speakers. I have a theory that this inability to mimic also ties in with ear-training capability. But I have nothing to go on with that theory, but I have noticed that people that can pull off speaking foreign languages with natural accents also make pretty good ear-training capable musicians. Language teachers have identified this also, good musicians "have an ear for languages". I've read somewhere many moons ago (paraphrased) that a spoken language can be compared to music. (As a matter of fact, our spoken letters are just a collection of frequencies -- just like a chord.) The mathamtician in you might be better in the grammar of a foreign language, the musician in you is probably better in sounding the foreign language. Joe, as you have asked eons ago about the different modes, this one is almost as simple or hard. Just as was said, pick a song that you know. Find a chord progression that is fairly "complicated" and make it easier and more complicated again and listen to the different sounds. Then play the same chords on a different position of the fretboard, meaning you have a different shape and a different order of the notes in that chord. Sometimes the inversion makes the sound on the recording. (Side note: I have a transcription book with several rockabilly songs. Stray Cat Strut is in there. The Cm chord is written to be played on the third fret. Brian Setzer definitely plays the Cm as a barré chord on the eighth fret. One can hear the "high-C" clearly ringing which would not be posible if he played the "G" on the third fret of the first string. And knowing a little about the band Stray Cats, there was no other instrument in the band that could have played that note.)
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I sat around the radio as Floyd said he did..... I played along with the songs. It was kind of a pain back then because few bands and singers used A-440 as a tuning standard. Songs were literally all over the place in pitch. I remember having to retune for each song I played on the record player.
If you want to develop this skill, start studying chord theory....
For example, in the key of C major.... there are 3 chords that are guaranteed to be there.... called the 1....4....5 chords.... or C,F,G. IN addition, the 6 minor...or Am chord can also be a common chord.... knowing that.... you can easily play almost any song in any key. When you learn the 1,4,5 thing.... that translates to every key the exact same way.
As far as "feeling the progression" and where it might be headed next, that does take some time, but it's totally doable. It's kind of like Obi-Wan telling Luke to Feel the force...let the force guide you. It's easy once you "get it" but having it, well, it's not easy to explain what I do or how I do it other than saying.... "I know where it's going because I can feel it and it tells me where it's going".
This skill comes from doing. Country music is a GREAT way to start learning since they use easy to hear and easy to follow progressions. Old rock and Beatles tunes are also great to practice with. Find a rock oldies (60's) radio channel and a country (60's to 80's) channel and have fun.
I remember a buddy coming over to my house with the brand spanking new Cosmo's Factory album by Creedence Clearwater Revival and throwing it on the record player. I grabbed my guitar and played along with songs I had never heard before. My buddy was amazed that I could play to something I had never heard before.
It's a skill worth having and developing.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 07/29/15 02:21 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Hi joe. I agree that playing along to the radio is a great way to practice this. Here is what I generally do. The first step is always to establish what key the song is in. Just use the top string of your guitar to see which note fits the best most of the time and this is usually the key. Then try just playing major chords of the 1st 4th and 5th chords in that key . Then try and substitute the major chords with that chord's relative minor. When you've got that down then start experimenting with other chord variations. When the song is in a horrible key (eg Bb) then put a capo on fret one and play in A.
Hope this helps.
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Mario is right. Music theory should be part of every musician's lessons. Even those without a formal teacher should invest in a good book on at least basic theory.
And yes, sitting around and playing with either the radio or a recording is a very good way to develop your ears. Add that to some good basic music theory and you should know the kind of chords that fit. For example, in the key of C Major the D (ii) chord is usually minor. So if you hear the bass note of D, the first one you should try is Dm. If that sounds wrong, there are other less common choices.
The combination of theory and ear training will eventually produce reasonably efficient results for most simple to moderate songs.
As far as memorizing. One song at a time, take the music away or you will never learn it. See how far you can get. When you get stuck check and then start at the beginning again until you get stuck again. It's time consuming I know, but if you don't put the music down, you will probably take forever to memorize it.
Muscle memory works but if your muscles don't need to remember but would rather have the brain tell them, they will probably let the brain do the work.
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Jo,
Love ya but would have to respectfully disagree with the capo advice. Unless you will be playing folk exclusively that is, because if you want to play Jazz or even Blues the capo is not your friend. Case in point how may Jazz & Blues Guitarist have you seen playing with a capo?
My answer, is like many above have stated . . . the same way you get to Carnegie Hall, practice, practice practice.
Later,
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The easy way to find the key of a song is: The last chord of 99.8% of all songs is the root chord, which is the key the song is in.
Of course, if the song had a key change, you will need to factor that in to figure the original key.
Do this, playing the chords by ear, and there will come a point in time where you can listen to a song and without a guitar in your hand, you will be able to determine the key just from the chords you are hearing and instantly know the chords being played.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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The easy way to find the key of a song is: The last chord of 99.8% of all songs is the root chord, which is the key the song is in.  Yes, but that one is hard to determine if the song is played on the radio. They usually don't give you the last measures and then start the song from the very beginning. 
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Joe,
You and I are a lot alike... we both try to over complicate tasks, and in so doing we risk getting overwhelmed.
Instead of trying to hear ALL chords in ALL songs (too complicated) I suggest focusing on the nashville system, in which you learn where the I-IV-V etc chords are located for one key. You should actually be able to do this pretty quickly through repetition.
Once you know the pattern, take Herb's advice and get the key from the last chord in the song. Maybe not 100% accurate, but hey, we're trying to simplify a complex task here.
Once you know the pattern and the key, just use a capo to put you in the right key, and play the one pattern that you have learned. With your experience, you should be able to get from where you are now to reasonable proficiency in a pretty short period.
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Danny. I agree about the capo. So if you can play in Bb you should definately do it. I am basically lazy! Finding the key from the last key ain't gonna work if you trying to play along with the radio ( as grinch mentioned). I usually just strum along with E shaped bar chords up and down the neck or pluck a single string. You soon hear that the key is usually the chord or string that sounds the rightest (is that a word?) and then you can happily play along with the rest of the song with I IV and V (usually). It may not be right but the next song will be better.
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Finding the key from the last chord assumes you have the song in some sort of format which allows you to play it multiple times.
On the radio..... the goal is to figure it out fast and jump in the deep end and swim.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Danny. I agree about the capo. So if you can play in Bb you should definately do it. I am basically lazy! Finding the key from the last key ain't gonna work if you trying to play along with the radio ( as grinch mentioned). I usually just strum along with E shaped bar chords up and down the neck or pluck a single string. You soon hear that the key is usually the chord or string that sounds the rightest (is that a word?) and then you can happily play along with the rest of the song with I IV and V (usually). It may not be right but the next song will be better. Jo, I will never forget the 1st time a band leader called Tea For Two in 5 FLATS, I was a young guitar player obviously in a band that was years ahead of me. I nearly fell through the stage with embarrassment as I naively replied, OK but what key are we doing this in? LOL Later,
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A very interesting topic, and one that I have struggled with as well. I have used all of the suggestions listed in one form or the other over the years and they are all valid. The one I haven't seen listed yet and was of great benefit to me was to learn "relative" pitch". This is not perfect pitch but the difference in tones by their intervals. There are many examples on youtube about this and they give song examples. For instance sing the first two notes of Auld Lang Syne (sp) or Here comes the bride, the first is the 1 and the second is the perfect 4th. If I were in C this 4th would be F. Most pop songs aren't that complicated so the chords can be figured out. Also i can use do-re-mi etc. The beauty of relative pitch is that I can use it in any key since the relationship is the same. I have madee up your own relative pitch examples that are meaningful to me. I really enjoy reading other peoples methods because it shows they are serious about their music. I do have a working knowledge of degrees of scale. Hope this may also help. DennisD
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if you have the music try putting the scale degree numbers and quality of the chord above the chords ex c f am g would have 1 4 6m 5 above them soon you will discover many songs can be played with the same progression The Axis of Awesome google 3 and 4 chord songs to get lists of songs using these progressions and play them without music memorize the diatonic triads in major and minor scales use the PRACTICE WINDOW in biab
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My comment may be irrelevant with all that's been said. Me... I remember when I struggled with this back in the 70's. What I did (in trying to find the 'key') as I was listening to the song's verses I tried to find the 'tonic' note by playing the low E (up and down the neck) on my axe to hear what sounded right. If a fifth fret A sounded right then I'd try a Maj or minor chord during the verse. Either should be somewhat easy to determine at this juntcure. That worked for me and I find it somewhat easy now. EDIT: then once one knows the tonic (key) then they must rely on their basic theory to know what other chords are in that key. Yes...it still requires some ear/listening discipline to get better at it. Hope that helps AND that this point wasn't mentioned earlier. Carry on....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 07/29/15 12:58 PM.
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Capo use totally ok relevant to the post topic. It's pretty easy to hear ringing open strings in a capoed guitar or alternatively tuned guitar on pop tunes. Jazz is a different story, but for pop, use the capo if the song calls for it.
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All great advice - I've done some of these things at one time or another - but not all of them - thanks for all of your input.
I would have liked to have been born with more 'natural' talent in this area - but I can't complain with what I've been given to work with - and these suggestions will help me move forward again.
It's so easy to plateau when you've reached a certain point - and it almost seems you have to work harder and harder for much smaller gains.
One thing that always threw me off were secondary dominants in progressions. I've only recently learned how they are sporadically and strategically sprinkled into standard progressions by preceding a diatonic chord with it's dominant 7th, along with a few of the other standard substitutions.
With the finite (but reasonable) time I have to practice, I've recently begun identifying the numerical progression of chords, substitution rules, and forcing myself to continually review the songs and then play them without looking at the music....but learning a song (especially one with an interesting arrangement rather than just some simple strumming patterns) takes a long, long time.
Learning from listening - I spent much time in my earlier years - and as many have suggested - I realize NOTHING can replace what it teaches you. I have to get back to that again soon - but I want to establish a good repertoire first - something I've long overlooked.
All great advice - a bunch of new ideas, thanks again to all.
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- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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