As I recall, BIAB will not display C-flat or F-flat chords. I remember this was discussed previously on the forum. I don't recall the reason for it (if there ever was one)
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA
You cannot produce these four notes in BIAB, only their enharmonic equivalents, even with Edit, Force Accidental. I can thus see how you would not be able to form a chord with these four notes as a root tone.
This has been on the Wishlist, but not for many years. Might be good for a refresher.
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Is it possible to force one accidental in a chord?
I'm trying enter A/C# (A triad, C# bass, i.e., first inversion), and it keeps substituting A/Db ... If there is a way to "force" the correct one I can't find it...
I have a Technics SX PR603 which displays chord names when I play them. If I am playing in the Key of Eb major if I play a Cb it displays B, in all inversions. As I remember this happens on other brands of electronic keyboards I have played.
So...I don't find that very strange, perhaps not what you want to see written as a chord. In standard notation the notes will be the same. Perhaps I am missing something. There is only Bb and C in the key of Eb so you will either raise the 5th or lower the 6th and I assume BB plays that note or triad. Correct??
If enharmonic keys are identical when played on a keyboard, composers don't just chose the key with the fewer sharps or flats. It is only with the modern tuning system we call 'equal temperament' that the pairs of enharmonic notes have the same pitch. In other tuning systems these two notes are actually different. I am not sure if the above has any bearing on the issue you are having.
I would love to hear more about the issue. Also any misconceptions I may have on this issue.
I have been told E=MC2...but I know better E=Fb....lol
Cheers
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
It's a matter of the music theory. It's not so much an issue of equivalence. If I'm playing in the key of G-flat, I am not playing in the key of F-sharp (which, at least on a piano, is tone equivalent to G-flat), and so if I go up a 4th for the next chord, I expect that chord to be a C-flat, not a B-natural (which is what I expect were I in the key of F-sharp.
Notation-wise, the G-flat chord would have notes on G, B, and D lines (in treble clef), but with the key signature consisting of 6-flats so all three notes are flatted. My brain has already acknowledged the key signature, so going up to the 4th would be confusing to all of a sudden see a B chord with accidentals on the notes B, D-sharp, and F-sharp, rather than no accidentals on the notes C-E-G (but all flatted by the existing key signature). B is not the 4th of G-flat; C-flat is. Likewise, C-flat is not the 4th of F-sharp; B is.
That's what's being asked for.
John
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I understand the issue better now. I sort of assumed this was just a question of standard notation and music theory and not BB playing out some notes that did not sound correct.
As I stated I have the same issue with my keyboard. It was a bit confusing when I first got it. For example if I play a C# the keyboard display returns a Db.
I made the assumption that the maker of the keyboard did not want to spend the money to cause the keyboard to return the correctly displayed chord name. I assume the same for BB. There must be a constant battle with BB to provide what people want and what is cost effective.
I also kinda of assumed Technics may have taken their idea from a "standard" circle of Fifths chart which only list the most common keys. There is no C# on that chart, though I never considered C# to be a strange key to play in.
I can see how this lack of adherence to standard notation would be very disconcerting to someone sight reading something and even more so if that was their only way of playing.
I will digress a bit to relate a story about a very fine classical piano player who player for the German National Symphony and live above me in France. Nicole could play anything that was placed in front of her. I placed a Robert Johnson guitar transcribed piece on her piano and it was scary as....Robert came right out of the piano...lol On the other hand she could not play a simple 1/4/5 by ear until I showed her how. I was totally amazed someone with such an huge skill set could not play something so simple by ear.
I think it would be a very daunting task to make a software product that would satisfy someone who came from the Juilliard School of Music and someone who learned to play on the back porch.
I can imagine such a thing...lol
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Cheers,
Billy
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Last edited by Planobilly; 08/10/1511:57 AM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
It's a matter of the music theory. It's not so much an issue of equivalence. If I'm playing in the key of G-flat, I am not playing in the key of F-sharp (which, at least on a piano, is tone equivalent to G-flat), and so if I go up a 4th for the next chord, I expect that chord to be a C-flat, not a B-natural (which is what I expect were I in the key of F-sharp.
Notation-wise, the G-flat chord would have notes on G, B, and D lines (in treble clef), but with the key signature consisting of 6-flats so all three notes are flatted. My brain has already acknowledged the key signature, so going up to the 4th would be confusing to all of a sudden see a B chord with accidentals on the notes B, D-sharp, and F-sharp, rather than no accidentals on the notes C-E-G (but all flatted by the existing key signature). B is not the 4th of G-flat; C-flat is. Likewise, C-flat is not the 4th of F-sharp; B is.
That's what's being asked for.
Great response John, precise and exact (no surprise). Just sight-read the score of Moonlight Sonata (Opus 27, Beethoven). Written in the key of C# minor, it includes significant intonation, with notes throughout such as B# instead of C natural, because the written note of C would not correctly fit with a melody written with a key signature of C# minor. Other double sharps persist throughout the movement. It's a reasonably simple song to listen to, but to play requires lots of concentration. Accidentals throughout. Hence this discussion.
Trevor
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