|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 128
Apprentice
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 128 |
In the band I am in we pretty much did all our songs in the original key and if we couldn't we just didn't do that song. My fiance was a chorus teacher/vocal coach for 20 years and is very big on getting the key comfortable. She has a wonderful voice and sounds great in any key....I on the other hand have a marginal voice.... this works with a band but in a duo set up I will be more prominent. I have been working on backing tracks and have found I have had to change the key quite a bit to make it comfortable on some songs ie "Bad Moon Rising" originally in D and I moved it to A. I will admit it sounds much better than when I tried to screech to do it in D but how far can you go before you need to make stylistic changes. For me I will have to play the guitar part in a different position so I will need to play it differently. The backing tracks pretty much follow the original.....I just don't want it to sound like a lounge lizard act.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,869
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,869 |
That's where inversions come in handy. However, any time you change the key to a song, the feel of the song becomes different, often in subtle but noticeable ways to those with good ears. This is especially true when the song is originally played with open chords. As soon as you play a barre or inversion, it's immediately obvious to all but the most tone deaf people that "something's not quite right" with the song.
A game several of us musicians used to play (many years ago) was to listen to a song we were not familiar with and determine the key simply by listening. It's really not as hard as it sounds. I find myself playing the solitaire version of this game even now.
All that said, good musicians can play a song in any key and make it sound good. As you point out.... Bad Moon in D really relies on the open chords John Fogerty used in it for it's signature sound. Change it to A and the color of the chords are now totally different.
It's really a toss up on changing the keys vs keeping the original key and groove. But if the singer can't sing in the original key, you really don't have too many options other than changing the key or the singer.
Perhaps another, better option is to choose your songs carefully from the list of songs that you CAN sing comfortably. Avoid the ones that are difficult due to the original key being out of range and the ones you're not willing to re-work into a different key.
The upside to changing keys is that it affords the opportunity for you to work up a totally unique version of the song since the original sound won't be a part of the feel.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 128
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 128 |
In A I have the chord inversion worked out and as you said it will alter the sound compared to the original but I just don't have Fogerty's vocal range. What I have been using BIAB for is to get backing tracks that are reasonably close to the original without the signature parts which I will play live. Then I play with the key changes to find out what works best. With Bad Moon I transposed the bass upwards to A and the guitar downwards to A and this sounds pretty good to me. Singing wise it seems to hold up as well. I need to work out some of the signature parts to see if it will fly. If not then I may play with styles and come up with a new version. Thanks for the advice.
Last edited by pedwards2932; 11/12/15 05:45 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 128
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 128 |
One of the interesting things I can do with my GR 55 guitar synth is I can use alternate tunings so I can play the chords as they were in the original but transposed to whatever key I want. Not sure how well it would work but I have used it before when I wanted to take a song down a half step or 2 and it would have been difficult to change the way I played the song.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,298
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,298 |
This may sound odd, but it depends on the audience.
There are the people who know you changed keys, no why, and think it was a good choice. There's really not that many of these in a typical crowd.
There are the people who know you changed keys, no why, and don't like it. This is usually an even smaller part of the crowd.
Then there is BY FAR the vast majority who don't realize you changed the key at all. I'm not kidding when I say it's probably over 90% of the people or more. They simply don't know.
Then there is the other factor. Alcohol. It's the game changer.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,916
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,916 |
Then there is BY FAR the vast majority who don't realize you changed the key at all. I'm not kidding when I say it's probably over 90% of the people or more. They simply don't know. In a typical crowd I'd say it is more like 99%! If you wanna cover a song grab yer capo and sing it where it is comfortable. The impact of you not being John Fogerty is gonna be much greater than the impact of transposing the song! And that one guy in the audience who might notice? Who cares? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 128
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 128 |
Luckily for me I am doing the duo thing for my own entertainment so as long as I don't jeopardize playing a place I feel like I have freedom to do basically what I want just need to learn to duck if they start throwing things. I get what you are saying though most people aren't going to be that tuned into what we're doing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
Luckily for me I am doing the duo thing for my own entertainment so as long as I don't jeopardize playing a place I feel like I have freedom to do basically what I want just need to learn to duck if they start throwing things. I get what you are saying though most people aren't going to be that tuned into what we're doing. Let me know how that works out for ya. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 128
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 128 |
I was just being flip....been playing in a band for 30 years doing danceable music and I see the duo as a way to try things I might not normally do......if a song falls on it's face I just won't do it any more. But the bottom line is I really would like to enjoy the music I'm doing.....that wasn't always happening in the band.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,298
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,298 |
Then there is BY FAR the vast majority who don't realize you changed the key at all. I'm not kidding when I say it's probably over 90% of the people or more. They simply don't know. In a typical crowd I'd say it is more like 99%! If you wanna cover a song grab yer capo and sing it where it is comfortable. The impact of you not being John Fogerty is gonna be much greater than the impact of transposing the song! And that one guy in the audience who might notice? Who cares? Ha! I struggled with that. I started at 99%. Brought it down to 95%. Then finally settled on the confusing " over 90% or more." Brought to you by the department of redundancy department. I feel as you do though!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,869
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,869 |
Aside from the whole "if it's on the internet it must be true" thing,
9 out of 4 musicians are really bad at math.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,987
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,987 |
Generally, the vocalist's most comfortable range and "sweet spot" will dictate the key and the song will be transposed to suit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
I was just being flip....been playing in a band for 30 years doing danceable music and I see the duo as a way to try things I might not normally do......if a song falls on it's face I just won't do it any more. But the bottom line is I really would like to enjoy the music I'm doing.....that wasn't always happening in the band. In a duo, you have two choices: be background music that people talk over, or entertain. The former is easier, of course, but if you can sell the songs, nobody is going to care what key it's in. Regards, bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,298
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,298 |
Here is a odd observation. Now this doesn't haven't to do with transposition, which isn't a bad thing in my book, but it does have to do with the musicians liberty. I've seen bands a number of times where the singer "made it their own." The ones that bug me are the ones that "lounge it out." Just a pet peeve of mine. Part of what bothered me was, in my opinion, their changes to make a great melody sound lame. Again, MY opinion. You know THAT lounge singer, right? The other part that bothered me, and you will like this, was the number of people that REALLY enjoyed the singer anyway! Some would even come up and say "wow! She/He has a GREAT voice!" What?!?! Yup! So what did it matter what I thought? I was BY FAR one of the few! That guy/girl was out performing to ADORING fans! GOOD FOR THEM!  Just for the record, I have also see singers who have done melodic variations that I was blown away by. So it's not that they have to sing it "like the record" for me. I hope that helps a little?
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 128
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 128 |
Yes your comments help a lot and make sense. I like to stay somewhat true to the original. I recorded my voice on Bad Moon in A and I don't think it went too "loungy" to me. I have to work on the guitar parts to see how it will sound. I try to make intelligent decisions on songs and my fiance being a chorus/vocal teacher won't let me get away with anything. This is what I really like about BIAB is I can easily set up backing tracks and not have to invest a lot of time to see if a song will work.....Bad Moon is essentially a three chord song and the real challenge to me is singing it. As it sits right now I'm leaning towards not doing it but not totally ready to abandon ship.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,869
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,869 |
Whether a song goes "lounge lizard" or stays true to the original groove I think depends more on the style you choose and the way it's sung. More so than the key you choose to sing it in.
If you take Bad Moon, and apply a smooth jazz style.... you got instant lounge lizard grist.
You can modulate all over the place and still have that original groove if it's played with the attitude, groove, and feeling JF put into the original.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
To be a real Lounge Lizard, you have to play “Quando Quando Quando” 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 128
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 128 |
I think you are correct. My band has been doing Bob Segar tunes for years and I used to screech it out in the original key and blow my voice out. We moved them into a more reasonable key and no more blow outs and it sounds much better to me. I guess the key for me is to record it and evaluate. Then we'll see if anyone complains that I am doing it in the wrong key.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,869
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,869 |
I think you are correct. My band has been doing Bob Segar tunes for years and I used to screech it out in the original key and blow my voice out. We moved them into a more reasonable key and no more blow outs and it sounds much better to me. I guess the key for me is to record it and evaluate. Then we'll see if anyone complains that I am doing it in the wrong key. No one will likely notice the key. They will notice that you are screeching and can't sing it in the original key.....they won't know the part about the key, they just know you're butchering the vocal part and that equates to "you really suck" in their minds. Always sing a song in YOUR comfort range. Transpose if necessary. But either own the song or don't sing it.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,987
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,987 |
FWIW, I collaborated with Seattle DJ Bob Rivers on "Bathroom On The Right", a CCR parody with Don Jr doing his fabulous John Fogarty impression.
I have Bob's permission to post it, if anyone is interested.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!
All of our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs are on sale until May 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
The XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs are not included in any Band-in-a-Box® package.
The XPro Styles PAKs 1-10 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
The Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the Xtra Styles PAK Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version as they require the RealTracks included in the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac Videos
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
Whether you're exploring new features, checking out the latest RealTracks or Style PAKs, this is your go-to guide for Band-in-a-Box® 2026.
Check out this forum post for "One Stop Shopping" of our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Videos!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 100 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until May 15, 2026. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49.
Holiday Weekend Hours
As we hop into the Easter weekend, here are our holiday hours:
April 3 (Good Friday): 8:00 AM – 4:00 PM PDT
April 4 (Saturday): Closed
April 5 (Easter Sunday): Closed
April 6 (Easter Monday): Open regular hours
Wishing you an egg-cellent weekend!
— Team PG
Update to Build 10 of RealBand® 2026 for Windows®!
If you're already using RealBand 2026 for Windows, download build 10 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® users: Build 904 now available!
If you're already using Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, make sure to grab the latest update! Build 904 is now available for download and includes the newest additions and enhancements from our team.
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® users: Build 1237 is now available!
Already a Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows user? Stay up to date and download the build 1237 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,219
Posts802,027
Members40,070
| |
Most Online64,515
Apr 8th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean