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...Motown offered us a deal at 2 cents per record, out of the royalties came inflated recording costs, inflated promotion costs and inflated distribution costs.
Plus they wanted to own our name, be the publishing company for our music (the publisher makes more per record than the artist) and have half the writing credits by adding a name to the copyright who had nothing to do with the song.
Our manager figured we would have to sell a million records before we would break even and not owe Motown money. Motown wouldn't even go for 2.5 cents a record, because they knew that others would do it for 2 or less. You've talked about this before and so have I because I have a similar experience in 1976. I've often wondered though if we had accepted that deal. Sure, for a good 20 years we would have gotten totally screwed but still done a ton of recordings and probably big shows, including TV. Still getting screwed though. But....here it comes.... At some point, maybe 10 years ago we would have started doing all these retro shows like the old stars are doing now. Those shows probably pay a whole lot more than all your local duo gigs have paid you over the last 10 years. Total speculation I know but I do wonder about that sometimes. Yes I know, what I'm describing is the tired, old "Play for the exposure, it'll pay off later". Because now you would be booking yourself as Bob Norton formerly with XXXX and XXXX and was on all these gold records. You became moderately famous for creating some killer sax line on whatever record. Even if you were not the front star. Look at all the people now who show up as guest artists with other groups doing all kinds of retro stuff. Gotta be more money and more fun than playing a local yacht club... I don't know man but maybe we still shoulda done it. And back on topic, no the vinyl thing doesn't mean squat in the big picture. Bob
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Vinyl to me is really just a fad. Sure, record sales may be increasing, but like people pointed out, they're only a small percent of the music consumption. In todays world, the average listen doesn't really care about how they listen to their music, they just want to listen. The average person is ok with listen to music on crappy laptop speakers, cheep earbuds plugged into their cellphone, or through bluetooth speakers, because to them, it's all about a good beat, and catchy lyrics. Plus, in the era of downloading and instant gratification, why would you want to go buy an album, if you can listen to it on youtube for free?
Now, on to the point of vinyl being just a fad. Vinyl to me is seen more as something to collect rather than the desired format of musical listening for hipsters. They really just want collect vinyl for the sake of owning tangible media. I don't believe that they really listen to the music, correct me if I'm wrong.
Now, there is a lot of hype that somehow vinyl sound way better then digital thanks to the audiophile community. Vinyl does not sound better than digital at all. When producing a vinyl record you have be extremely cautious about your mix. If you try to add to much bass to a song you could actual make the needle jump and ruin the entire album. You also have a to keep a lot of headroom. With digital, you have tons of headroom to make things as loud as you want, and you do end up with clicks and pops like you do with vinyl, unless you want to add the sounds to it.
Last, I do agree with a lot you how say that there is an experience own vinyl. Taking the time to go to the record store, coming home and deliberately putting forth the effort to listen to the entire album is something that digital can not replace. plus from a collectors point of view, you never know what to expect from a vinyl record.
Last edited by Islansoul; 06/13/16 06:08 PM.
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Michael Jackson got $2.00 a record for Thriller from epic. X 65 million copies.
The top 1 percent of any profession makes 99 percent of the money. Athletes, Politicians, Oil Execs, Pirates, Hedge Fund Managers, Corporations, .......
If the top 1% of the recording artist want to make more money, right now, they will release more vinyl. That's the only way they can do it. Can't do it from streaming contracts, touring, TV, Radio.
Oh wait judging Vocal contests, another way.
"When you help somebody else you are really helping yourself"
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...Motown offered us a deal at 2 cents per record, out of the royalties came inflated recording costs, inflated promotion costs and inflated distribution costs. <...snip...> You've talked about this before and so have I because I have a similar experience in 1976. I've often wondered though if we had accepted that deal. Sure, for a good 20 years we would have gotten totally screwed but still done a ton of recordings and probably big shows, including TV. Still getting screwed though. But....here it comes....<...snip...> I don't know man but maybe we still shoulda done it. And back on topic, no the vinyl thing doesn't mean squat in the big picture. Bob I agree. I thought about that myself. Except for the fact that Motown would have owned the name. They would have hired different people to play our songs and pretend they were us, like what has been done with Earth, Wind & Fire and so many other groups. At the time, there were a half dozen "Four Tops" touring the country at the same time. Prince and John Fogarty had to sue the record companies to use their own given name. Fortunately they had made enough money to afford that suit. But then, I could have toured with "Formerly of Rare Earth". But I wouldn't have gotten the big arenas. On the other hand, we would have made money on the concert tour when our records were on the chart, had a great time being the headliner, and when our recording debt to Motown was paid off with ticket sales, they probably would have quit tour promoting us, and owning the name, we couldn't do it ourselves. Back on topic. Vinyl won't help. We listened to low-fi-mono 45RPM records, we listened to very low-fi-cassettes, and we listen to low-fi-mp3s. Why? The average listener doesn't care about the difference (if he/she can even hear it) but prefers convenience. Vinyl is a lot of work. 45min and flip the disk. Clean the record before playing and still get pops and clicks. I'm afraid at this point nothing can save the recording industry (I could be wrong though). And furthermore, it makes no difference to me (except I'm not doing add-a-sax-to-your-track studio work anymore - but that was only a trickle). The -1% of the musicians who made big bucks from records will suffer, the record company 'suits' will suffer, and the songwriters will suffer. The only ones I have any sympathy for are the songwriters. Me? I'll continue playing live music like I always have, and I'll do so as long as there is an audience that wants to hear it. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
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[quote=Islansoul<...>Now, there is a lot of hype that somehow vinyl sound way better then digital thanks to the audiophile community. Vinyl does not sound better than digital at all<...> [/quote]
That's a matter of taste. New vinyl sounds truer to the source than CDs. I read an article in a trade from one of the inventors of the CD. At the bandwidth used (which was the best they could do at the time) there are severe quantization errors. Plus the DA converters add high harmonics that were not in the original signal, due to the nature of the pulses, which are square waves.
On the other hand, vinyl wears, high frequencies first, and those pops and clicks are a different kind of distortion.
So it's a matter of which kind of distortion do you prefer.
Notes
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Michael Jackson got $2.00 a record for Thriller from epic. X 65 million copies. If you are lucky enough to be an 'automatic', you can make your deal. The one-hit wonders end up working in gas stations of department stores. Oh wait judging Vocal contests, another way. When I found out American Idol was rigged I wasn't surprised. The entire year was a promotion for the 'winner' who was already decided. His/her competition was rigged, the judges were told how to judge and even what to say (in paraphrase) and the entire show was supposed to make a star that would save the recording industry by getting the people involved. Nothing wrong with that except that it exploited the losers who never had a chance. No, I don't feel sorry for the industry. They did it to themselves. Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
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Bob, the "high harmonics/square wave" comment is not actually true. Been through the exercise and the theory of how the analog output wave is constructed from the digital audio stream of pulses and I used to think the same thing, but after studying the actual process it actually does not work the way one would think. The impulse response of each individual sample is not a square wave but rather a ringing filter response. When you add all of those ringing filter responses together, you end up with a smooth analog wave form with the intended frequency response. You do not end up with a bunch of high harmonics that are unintended. This has to do with the output anti-aliasing filter technology that has been present for decades.
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That was from one of the inventors of the CD in a trade. I suppose he could have been mis-quoted. Then there are still the "severe quantization errors" caused by the inadequate bit rate of the technology of the time. In any case, it's about picking your distortion, as no recording medium faithfully reproduced the original. My ears tell me that vinyl is warmer and digital is edgier. My ears tell me that my all-time favorite sax player (who I have heard live) Stan Getz sounds more like Stan Getz on LPs and his tone drifts more towards Zoot Sims on CD. After saying all that, I listen on CD because the tone distortion is less annoying than the pops and clicks. But back to the topic. While most people have historically have not cared that much about recording quality, I don't think Vinyl will save the business. After all, not only did we listen to 45rpm records, but 8-track tapes that would sometimes fade out in the middle of the song 'click-click' change tracks and then fade in for the rest of the song (that was definitely a deal-killer for me). Then we had the high frequency starved cassette tape (with his) and the lossy mp3 format. Like many things, dinosaurs, steam locomotives, drive-in movie theaters, MS-DOS, vacuum tube radios, floppy disks, etc., the recording industry is past it's prime and possibly on the way to extinction. If I knew how to save it, I'd go into the consulting business.  Notes
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Then we had the high frequency starved cassette tape Cassettes could have been a lot better had they gone to a speed of 3 3/4 ips, rather than 1 7/8 ips. Several vendors had 90-minute, 100-minute, and 110-minute blank cassettes, so the commercial industry could have easily created 45-minute, 50-minute, and 55-minute recordings at 3 3/4 ips. Alas, water under the bridge.
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Then we had the high frequency starved cassette tape Cassettes could have been a lot better had they gone to a speed of 3 3/4 ips, rather than 1 7/8 ips. Several vendors had 90-minute, 100-minute, and 110-minute blank cassettes, so the commercial industry could have easily created 45-minute, 50-minute, and 55-minute recordings at 3 3/4 ips. Alas, water under the bridge. Tascam Portastudios proved that. Designed to run at a faster speed and record in one direction only. Good quality from VHS Tapes used in quality stereo video recorders for archiving too.
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There was a time...long long ago....in a galaxy far, far away..... When you would cue up your 1/4” tape on your Tascam 2-track tape deck, into a good pre into a McIntosh tube amp and a great pair of speakers....and it was aural heaven! 
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There was a time...long long ago....in a galaxy far, far away..... When you would cue up your 1/4” tape on your Tascam 2-track tape deck, into a good pre into a McIntosh tube amp and a great pair of speakers....and it was aural heaven! Yeah. But going for a jog with it was SUCH an effort...
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Yeah. But going for a jog with it was SUCH an effort... You could jog? My knees are not good so I took the low-impact route and would swim with mine! I was confused for years by what wet vs. dry mix meant.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
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Yeah. But going for a jog with it was SUCH an effort... You could jog? . Keep in mind... Bob said.."..a time...long long ago....in a galaxy far, far away....." AND... this is a thread about "Can vinyl save the record industry?" ...so it's all just fantasy. You wouldn't BELIEVE what I can do in my dreams!!!!!
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The thing is that the general public prefers convenience to high fidelity.
And sorry to say (as a musician), the words are even more important the music.
Musicians care about tone, and perhaps a few audiophiles do too, but 99% of the public does not. To them there is lousy sound and 'good enough' sound. Good enough is the sweet spot.
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac - Special Offers End at 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th, 2026!
Order before 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th and SAVE up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 for Mac Upgrade packages... and that's not all! With your version 2026 for Mac purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks... that's 222 NEW RealTracks available with version Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac!
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® today for as little as $49! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all available purchase options.
Learn more about the Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK here.
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202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
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These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
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Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
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- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
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It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
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Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac Videos
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
Whether you're exploring new features, checking out the latest RealTracks or Style PAKs, this is your go-to guide for Band-in-a-Box® 2026.
Check out this forum post for "One Stop Shopping" of our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Videos!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 100 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
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Holiday Weekend Hours
As we hop into the Easter weekend, here are our holiday hours:
April 3 (Good Friday): 8:00 AM – 4:00 PM PDT
April 4 (Saturday): Closed
April 5 (Easter Sunday): Closed
April 6 (Easter Monday): Open regular hours
Wishing you an egg-cellent weekend!
— Team PG
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