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I have the home studio st up with the whole works, Dual monitor dell system hooked to mboxpro. I'm lokking to set up portable system to play out with. Thinking of using laptop with BIAB setting ontop of my PSR 740 playing directly through a small portable PA. The question is, how much audio interface do I need. Do I even need a audio interface? I'm not using it to record but to play andI do want the best quality of sound possible for a reasonalble investment.
Dell 610 dual Monitor, win 7-10, Sonar Plat, ProTools 10 & 11, Reaper 4, BIAB/real Band 2022, Easy Drummer, Superior Drummer, Kontact Essentials, Personnel Orchestra, Korg Legacy Analog & Digital
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Do I even need a audio interface? I'm not using it to record but to play and I do want the best quality of sound possible for a reasonable investment. Earl, in some ways you've answered your own question. The audio interface on the laptop may not likely be that great, but some are OK. If you need volume for playing live gigs, then you'll need an external Amp. If you just need reasonable volume, then a pair of Active Monitors (powered speakers) might just do the trick. One suggestion would be to start with Active Monitors connected to the laptop, and add an improved audio interface if required.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Wow, PSR 740!!!! I used to have one of those about 20 years ago. After eight keyboards, I'm now playing the Tyros 5. Good for you, Earl!
I agree with VideoTrack. Invest in a decent audio interface. They've come way down in price over the past five years. What used to cost $1,500 can now be had for around $350. Make sure it is an ASIO type. I just bought the Steinberg UR44. It is VERY robust and always shows up in the device list where it's supposed to, which means its driver is very well written.
Last edited by Lee Batchelor; 07/07/16 03:26 AM.
Gear: Tyros 5, MOX8, SoundCraft EFX12 mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, Yamaha HS-8 monitors, BIAB 2016 UltraPlusPAK, Cubase 8, Steinberg UR-44 interface.
"If everyone played a musical instrument, we wouldn't need police officers or armies." Lee B.
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I guess I should have asked the question a different way. what does an Audion interface actually do? Does it actually improve the sound quality and if so how does it do this? In the old days we had sound cards. Is this basically the same? What is the real difference between a $ 50 interface and a $3000 interface?
Dell 610 dual Monitor, win 7-10, Sonar Plat, ProTools 10 & 11, Reaper 4, BIAB/real Band 2022, Easy Drummer, Superior Drummer, Kontact Essentials, Personnel Orchestra, Korg Legacy Analog & Digital
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If you're playing gigs, you do NOT need an audio interface. The lappy sound card is often sufficient and sounds good enough if you're using wave files. Interfaces would work OK in the field, but won't give you any particular sound quality advantage. Reserve them to the studio for multitrack recording.
A good laptop with some sort of music software that lets you set up sets, and quickly pull up requested songs is all you need. Run the lappy direct to the PA and have fun.
Remember, on a gig, simple works best. The more complicated you make it the more likely you are to have problems.
Use WAVE files for the best quality.
Heck I would simply take the projects in BB and render them to a WAVE missing the parts you intend to play live. I hear some folks who do use BB live, and that's an option, but if you render the waves, that's one less program running to cause issues.
I have a buddy who does that sort of thing for a side job. Plays music on the weekends. He runs TWO identical laptops. Both are booted up and programs running. If one glitches out and crashes, he can switch to the backup in a few seconds and the show goes on.... while the other one gets rebooted. He uses MP3 files.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 07/07/16 05:05 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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The headphone out of modern laptop is more than good enough for live gigging. One thing though, running it while plugged in with an AC power cable will cause weird noises through your PA and that will be your first question here after the gig. You need to either use a two prong adapter to lift the ground or run it off the battery.
The second suggestion is to use a stereo break out adapter so you can run the bass and drums to one channel and the rest of the instruments to another channel. The overall mix will sound vastly different out on a gig than it does at home. One gig I did in a medium sized bar the bass was just booming and I could turn it down that way. It's the bass and drums that causes the most trouble so that was my solution to have separate control over them. That can change as the gig goes on too. Early there may be only a few people but later the place is packed and you need to turn the bass and drums back up. Yes you can control that live using Biab's mixer but that's tricky to do while you're playing. Then when you stop that song and move on to the next one the mix can be different. You'll soon realize that what you set up at home as far as balancing between the instrument tracks is pretty much useless on the gig because of different acoustics.
To get back to an interface, there was a former user here named Silvertones who had an elaborate live setup using an 8 channel expensive interface that could breakout each instrument to it's own track. That gave him full control of the entire mix because he also had an 8 channel PA. He used Real Band rather than Biab for this because of more available tracks.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Even though the sound quality may not be drastically different, there are other reasons to consider using an audio interface. I experienced repeated frustration when using the laptop headphone output earlier this year that was solved by changing from the headphone output to a USB audio interface. You can read all about it in this PG Music forum thread: A Mystery - Can You Solve It? In my opinion, the sound quality actually did improve as well. I'll never go back to using a headphone output. It doesn't have to be an expensive one. I am using a Roland/Edirol unit that was about $100 (I don't know if it is still available).
Jim
Psalm 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skillfully with a loud noise.
BIAB 2018 build 519; Dell Inspiron N4110, Windows 10 64 bit, Intel Core i3-2350m running at 2.29 GHz, Memory: 6 GB DDR3, SDRAM 1MHz
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The headphone out of modern laptop is more than good enough for live gigging. One thing though, running it while plugged in with an AC power cable will cause weird noises through your PA and that will be your first question here after the gig. You need to either use a two prong adapter to lift the ground or run it off the battery. That depends on your power supply adaptor. There are some that need a galvanic isolation, others don't because of their internal workings. If you get "weird noises" when your laptop is plugged in, get one of the rather cheap adaptors from somebody like Radio Shack or your preferred dealer of electronic equipment. They know this effect and the means to solve it. If you've never heard about it look for galvanic isolation on Wikipedia and continue from there.
Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
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A couple of points. First sound quality. Unless you're using a multi thousand dollar PA system, you're not going to hear any difference. I point this out all the time when the subject of sound quality comes up. What are you listening through? Cheapo computer speakers? A few hundred dollar home theater system bought at Walmart? What? Good sound requires good money.
I can't speak for the OP but most on this forum are using Fender passports or other small all in one systems like Yamaha, Samson etc that sell for $500 or so. Those are strictly mediocre, hardly audiophile quality. I just did a gig at the Catalina Yacht Club using the new Bose F1 system with the subs. That system only costs five grand not including a good mixer. Sounded absolutely awesome. Maybe with a system like that an interface would make a difference.
But, consider this. On the breaks we simply plugged in an Android phone for break music. Sounded just fine and I doubt the mini jack out of a phone is any better quality that the headphone outs from a laptop, in fact I suspect the laptop is much better because now everybody is using their laptop's, Surface Pro's and other tablets for music, movies and gaming. This is why the internal DAC's have been greatly improved over the last several years.
As to the mini jack, yes they are weak but if you're smart you work that out by using gaffers tape or whatever to secure it so it doesn't move. And in that other thread, the main issue I saw is he didn't know how to clean up his laptop for live music.
I've said it so many times I should tattoo it on my head, "You have to be a computer nerd to work with digital audio". This forum tends to be 'ahem' an older crowd and some (certainly not all) older folks really don't understand this stuff too well so we try to be helpful and walk them through it.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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For $30, this is worth a shot, and pretty small. I have a Behringer interface a little higher up on the food chain (UMC204HD U-Phoria) that offers low latency and XLR ins, but I use a Wx-7 and some .VST instruments where that's necessary - the low latency . https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-UCA202-Audio-Interface/dp/B000KW2YEI
Last edited by PhillyJazz; 07/07/16 09:33 AM.
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I agree with Bob that if you are using a typical, small sound system, you probably won't hear much (if any) difference). I am also using a Bose system - the original L1 Classic PAS with one subwoofer. After using the headphone output of my laptop for several years, I do hear some difference in sound quality. Not huge, but noticeable.
The frustration I began to experience in 2015 was that when I booted everything up, I suddenly had no output from the laptop until I disconnected the cable from the headphone output jack and then plugged it right back in. Not a huge deal once I figured it out, but annoying just the same. This did not happen until after an update in early 2015 of either Windows 7 or BIAB. I used the same computer and sound system for years and never had to do this unplugging and replugging but once the problem began, I had to do it every time. A minor irritation, for sure, but I was able to eliminate it completely by using the audio interface, and the small improvement in sound was a surprise bonus.
Jim
Psalm 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skillfully with a loud noise.
BIAB 2018 build 519; Dell Inspiron N4110, Windows 10 64 bit, Intel Core i3-2350m running at 2.29 GHz, Memory: 6 GB DDR3, SDRAM 1MHz
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Hi Jazzmammal "The second suggestion is to use a stereo break out adapter so you can run the bass and drums to one channel and the rest of the instruments to another channel. The overall mix will sound vastly different out on a gig than it does at home. One gig I did in a medium sized bar the bass was just booming and I could turn it down that way. It's the bass and drums that causes the most trouble so that was my solution to have separate control over them. That can change as the gig goes on too. Early there may be only a few people but later the place is packed and you need to turn the bass and drums back up. Yes you can control that live using Biab's mixer but that's tricky to do while you're playing. Then when you stop that song and move on to the next one the mix can be different. You'll soon realize that what you set up at home as far as balancing between the instrument tracks is pretty much useless on the gig because of different acoustics." Can you explain this a little bit more for me. I'm not following it.  If I'm using BIAB on my tablet and outputting to two channels on the PA, do I just pan bass and drums left and the rest right in BIAB? If I'm using eg bluetooth to an Aux in on a PA (sometimes I just use wave files live from a phone or tablet), what do I do? Presumably I record them panned left and right. It sounds like a great idea as I find this a problem with backing tracks, but I don't get how to do it. Thanks. 
Last edited by lambada; 07/07/16 05:45 PM.
Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487
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Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi)
VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
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T hanks to all for some really good info. I think
I may volunteer free performnce at a couple of nursing homes or senior centers to check out how this all works in real time.
Dell 610 dual Monitor, win 7-10, Sonar Plat, ProTools 10 & 11, Reaper 4, BIAB/real Band 2022, Easy Drummer, Superior Drummer, Kontact Essentials, Personnel Orchestra, Korg Legacy Analog & Digital
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If I'm using BIAB on my tablet and outputting to two channels on the PA, do I just pan bass and drums left and the rest right in BIAB? If I'm using eg bluetooth to an Aux in on a PA (sometimes I just use wave files live from a phone or tablet), what do I do? Presumably I record them panned left and right. It sounds like a great idea as I find this a problem with backing tracks, but I don't get how to do it. Thanks. Yes, pan Biab so the Bass and Drum parts are L and everything else is R. A stereo breakout cable is plugged into the headphones out mini jack so you have two cables to run to your PA. You need your PA to have individual volume and tone controls for the two channels. If the bass is too loud but the drums are ok just trimming the low freq control is enough, or if they're both simply too loud or too soft you adjust the volume. I'm sure you know how to run your PA. When you said sometimes you use bluetooth to go into your AUX that could work but most AUX inputs I've seen don't break out into separate channels. It may be a stereo AUX input but that channel only has one set of controls which won't help. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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"pan Biab so the Bass and Drum parts are L and everything else is R."
Just to clarify; your L/R channels are essentially summed to mono at the mixer output to your speakers because each mixer channels' "Pan" (or balance) knob is centered. I don't think anyone is recommending your left speaker be bass and drums and your right speaker be all else. That would probably not be the sound effect you want to achieve.
The panning recommended is the actual BIAB tracks left and right adjustment. Example; pan your mono bass and mono drum track to the left so it only comes out the left output of your sound card or interface. This allows quick low frequency volume adjustments at the PA/mixer in a live and often solo performance.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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Thanks Jazzmammal and Tobias, I'll have a play around with it. I'm mainly using bluetooth to control the mixer etc from my phone. I'll probably stick to cables for BIAB.
Interestingly, I just got hold of a little dongle that adds Bluetooth connectivity to audio gear eg an older PA which will be great for when people want to sing karaoke songs as they can comfortably hold a tablet to read the words and not worry about a cable connecting it for the backing track (minus 1 etc). I'm finding I have to dip into Karaoke and DJing from time to time. Both new skills and harder than people realise - especially DJ'ing (sigh).
Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487
BIAB 2021 (Build 818)
Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor
Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi)
VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
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I have the home studio st up with the whole works, Dual monitor dell system hooked to mboxpro. I'm lokking to set up portable system to play out with. Thinking of using laptop with BIAB setting ontop of my PSR 740 playing directly through a small portable PA. The question is, how much audio interface do I need. Do I even need a audio interface? I'm not using it to record but to play andI do want the best quality of sound possible for a reasonalble investment. 52 bucks. Free shipping. Balanced outputs. Stereo/Mono switch. Bulletproof. Much better sound quality than any laptop 1/8" output. Regards, Bob
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Yes, that 'B' word is very important if it's going to be used outside of the studio.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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