PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic copyright

Hi All,havent been on this forum for sometime because of illness but now my stents seem to be working ok..I would like some advice on copyrighting my songs.Ive heard about the posting back to yourself but have been told if litigation arose it might not stand up in law..Thanks Frankie

That doesn't work at all.

If you live in the USA, you need to start at the US Copyright Office http://www.copyright.gov/

There you will find all the information you need as well as instructions and forms.

The "Send it off in a letter to yourself" has no legal status as far as I can tell.

Insights and incites by Notes

Copyright..... large complicated legal topic. Many aspects, but here's my non-legal scholar POV. (I have stayed at a Holiday Inn)

In a nutshell, a song is copyrighted the moment you record it in any form, by default. What you do in the process of copyright is to register that date of creation and the song to you. The official way is through the library of congress (LOC) for a fee. You can also copyright collections of songs as opposed to doing 10 individual copyrights. It saves a bit of money.

DO NOT waste your time with the "mail it to myself" thing.... it doesn't hold up in a court of law. You heard correctly.

Let me tell you how I do it. Obviously, others do it differently.

I don't copyright my music at all with the LOC. First, no one is out there looking to steal my music or your music for that matter. Have you tried to get someone to even just listen to your music in Nashville or LA who has connections to the inside circle? Nobody wants to hear it.

I have, in the past, spent a wad of money on copyrights because I just knew those songs were the next #1 hit. I listen to them now and realize how wrong I was. Those songs were my beginning attempts at writing. But I have the copyrights to prove I wrote them.

There are third party secure server companies which record the date you submit a song to them for a very small fee. (do a google search for them) I have one called SONGUARD which came with Masterwriter songwriting software. Because I have it, I use it. However, just posting a song to any of the music sites such as Soundcloud or Soundclick or Reverbnation will also time stamp the song on the date it was uploaded. Your computer also stamps the files when they are created. Using a service like this might help you sleep better at night. These sites essentially say, you uploaded this song on this date. If...and that's a HUGE if.... If you ever need to go to court, you would still need to file a copyright with the LOC.

However, like I mentioned, I don't copyright any of the songs or cues I write and submit, other than to include the copyright notice and date as given by me recording the song. I send the songs to publishers and music libraries and they are the ones who obtain the copyright. You see, if you copyright a song and send it to a publisher or library who then likes it and wants to use it, they would have to obtain a copyright anyway in their name filed with references back to your original copyright. It's more work for them to do that.

Here's how I see it. If I am working with a publisher or a music library, I have signed a contract of agreement with them. It's because I trust them, and they trust me. So why would I not trust them with my non-LOC protected music? If I don't trust them I shouldn't be doing business with them.

I have libraries and publishers who handle my music and cues and register the songs they use with the LOC as well as filing them with my PRO on my behalf. All of that is at no cost to me. I look into my BMI account and see it's grown as the new songs get added that I sent to the library a few weeks back.

So... in short.... that's how I do it. Of course, if you feel like you need to protect your songs, feel free to use the LOC (use the collections filing to save money) or use a third party secure server, or, just don't worry about it at all and find a few good publishers and libraries that you trust and let them handle it for you.



Regarding libraries and music use in film and TV..... if you register your songs with the LOC..... even in collections, there's a really good chance you will go broke even if your music is getting fairly wide airplay on TV. Here's the LOC fee schedule: http://www.copyright.gov/docs/fees.html

Understand that a short cue in a TV show can earn you anywhere from 5 cents to a dollar or there about per play. It takes a large number of cues being used to make that model financially feasible if you have a copyright fee to recover before you make a profit. My first BMI check would not have covered the LOC fees for one song let alone the others. If you land a national car commercial or a Nashville artist CD cut.... different story, but those cuts are the songwriter's equivalent to winning the lotto powerball drawing. That's why I let the publisher and library handle the legal fees and protection of my music.

EDIT: I don't think the music libraries copyright TV cues either and for the same exact reason. They make the same money I do as the writer. (50/50 split) I think the music is left un-copyrighted. I might be wrong, but I don't see how they could make money paying for thousands of music copyrights. HOWEVER..... the TV show or the film itself including the music and video gets copyrighted. Listen to any TV show,,,, especially the reality shows, no one is setting around listening for music, to steal for their next big hit. Oh... that 9 second cue right there is a cool groove and I'm going to write a hit based on it?..... have at it buddy. It ain't happening.


My advice is to get educated on copyright law ... if for no other reason than to say you read it. Get a copy of a book such as This Business of Music..... look it up on Amazon. It goes fairly in depth on copyright law for the songwriter. It comes close to making your eyes glaze over.... but it is educational and can dispel some of the myths and hype around this important subject.

The legitimate, ethical music business runs on trust and reputation. Break either and it's hard to get work. No legitimate publisher or library, who work hard to get where they are with insider connections is willing to risk losing it by stealing a song.

Hope this helps.... I'm sure others will add to and expand on this topic.

thanks for the input Bob and Herb..Ive looked at the copyright office US and also the UK one (I'm a Brit) but thought of a quicker and easier way to copyright my songs mostly gospel. Because in the past I was signed to a music publisher this was no problem also when a couple of songs were recorded copyright was done automatically. Now with your input Im pretty sure I know what to do so thanks again Frank

Good luck, I hope your songs are successful.

Bob

One thing which often gets overlooked is Soundcloud. If you upload your song to Soundcloud it will get date-stamped and it's as near to proof of copyright as you're going to get.

The next thing is that very few individuals can afford to defend their copyright. If your song is stolen, it will likely be by a corporation and if you instigate a legal action against them and lose, you will be liable for their costs. This can run into six figures and people have lost houses this way.

The best you can hope for is a threat based on your Soundcloud evidence and hope for an out-of-court settlement.

Just saying ...

ROG.

Without registration, at least in the US, the absolute most you can hope for is a cease and desist order. You will not be able to get any money even if Sony or WB stole the song and made a zillion dollars from it.

Soundcloud is no better then mailing it to yourself.

On the other hand ROG has a point. Trying to fight huge corporations can be very costly.

Insights and incites by Notes

With respect, Bob, the reasons that mailing it to yourself lacks credibility are largely due to it not being tamper-proof and having no external monitor. By uploading to Soundcloud you are lodging the work with an independent third party who date-stamp the receipt and display both the work and the date publicly.

However, as already stated, the pecuniary risks associated with instigating a legal action make it a non-starter for most individuals and so I accept that this point is largely academic.

Cheers, ROG.

Lawyers, smelling a large settlement payout, will often take a case on contingency. With the right lawyer, even the big corporations will settle rather than risk a jury decision that could cost millions more. Obviously you don't call the local law firm downtown which makes it's living from traffic tickets and misdemeanor offenses, but the ones in Nashville & LA who specialize in music biz law.

The whole point is...and especially for the genre you write... Gospel.... don't worry about copyright on your songs unless you are placing them directly with artists (as in doing your own publishing) because other than that, the publisher will handle the paperwork for you..... No self respecting Gospel artist should even try to steal your song....that's breaking one of the Ten Commandments.... Thou shalt not steal.... it would be the end of that artist's career.

I understand that, but it's still next to impossible to get a cash settlement unless the copyright is registered with the government.

In that way, there is no difference.

But like a previous poster said, even if your copyright is properly filed fighting corporate lawyers can be a very costly endeavor.

Insights and incites by Notes