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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 57
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Posts: 57 |
Hi
I dont play any instrument and so its difficult for me to gauge the quality of a realtrack compares to a girl/guy playing lets say on a piano in a studio recording through a mic or mics.
I guess what im asking is the realtrack up to the quality for a professional recording artist or would they redo the track again in studio?Obviously I want to produce as much finished tracks as I can without having to pay someone to play a track or tracks on my compositions.Thats the reason for asking.
Another way of putting it is :if im happy with the outcome of how the realtrack plays is the quality up to professional recording standard?(the track being mixed and mastered professionally being a given along with good computer systems etc)
May I add as for me i just produce midi compositions and run them through biab.Even though they obviously dont go note for note on my compositions they always make the composition (even if its turns out a good bit different) way way better.
Its funny too its a programme where not playing an instrument can sometimes lead you to making great sounding music
Its a fabulous technology and a really great company and staff,
Yours Hugh Hi There Hugh . I noticed some of the guys here have given you some great advice to take on board.  My advice is to give you this link: https://www.lynda.com/Pro-Tools-tutorials/Audio-Mixing-Bootcamp/87006-2.htmlThis is a link to a 9 hour long Tuition video series on Lynda.com called Audio Mixing Bootcamp , by Bobby Owsinsky He performs on pro tools, but the Daw doent matter what type, the principles are the same. I also recommend you buy his book home recording handbook (I think) .., which will teach you the all important fundamentals like mic placement etc. NOTE: You normally have to pay to watch these videos on lynda.com ... BUT .., you get a FREE 10 day full trial (after signing up) ...., This will give you enough time for the crash course, plus there is also stacks of other great video series also to watch and learn from. Groove 3.com , MacProVideo.com are also excellent (and much cheaper than a lynda subscription) but do not offer free demo periods) .., and remember ..., there is no such thing as a stupid question .., so ask and seek .., all the best  Heres the full rundown of the recommended course : AUDIO MIXING BOOTCAMP .., by Bobby Owsinsky Link : https://www.lynda.com/Pro-Tools-tutorials/Audio-Mixing-Bootcamp/87006-2.htmlIn this course, author Bobby Owsinski reveals industry tips, tricks, and techniques for producing professionally mixed audio on any digital audio workstation. He offers recommendations for setting up an optimal listening environment, highlights the most efficient ways to set up and balance a mix, and shows how to build a powerful sound with compression. The course also explains how to master the intricacies of EQ; incorporate reverb, delay, and modulation effects; and generate the final mix. Topics include:Optimizing your listening environment Setting up sessions, subgroups, and effects Understanding which mixing elements to avoid Understanding the principles of building a mix Panning instruments Setting up the compressor Using noise gates and de-essers Understanding the concept of frequency juggling Using the magic high-pass filter Timing reverb and delay to a track Using reverb to layer the mix Understanding the Haas effect Modulating guitars, keyboards, and vocals Mixing with subgroups Tweaking the final mix ..., and many more ..., for interest , heres Bobbys blog , some great studio stuff : http://bobbyowsinskiblog.com/
Last edited by SFG; 10/14/16 01:49 AM.
My Specs
Computer : Mac Pro (late 2013) - OS Yosemite 10.10.5
Processor : 3.5 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5
Memory : 64 GB 1866 MHz DDR3 ECC
Graphics : AMD FirePro D300 2048 MB
Interface : Avid Mbox 3 Pro
DAW : Pro Tools 12.6.0 (64 bit AAX)
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,058
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Tobias, for the bass only, you can specify pedal bass and have that do something different from the other instruments.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 57
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Also Hugh , If your gonna start , dont skimp on your interface , large numbers of inputs are not important unless you are recording a full band at the same time , like a fully miced drum kit and more simultaneously , .., if not just start with a 2 or four pre-amped input interface .., but make sure it is the best quality .. a 2 input model for you should be enough to start cheaply. like for example the focusrite claret range , or their new scarlet range (not the older version) or Antelope Audio are also making excellent stuff .., and their Hi Z guitar inputs are excellent also offering low noise . But importantly. these new offerings feature very low latency. https://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-2i2https://us.focusrite.com/thunderbolt-audio-interfaces/clarett-2preWith mics , its better to save up and buy the quality mics you need for life , rather than a cheap and nasty one (that also sounds like crap) at which you need to upgrade later on .., as that is wasted money that could have gone towards the good mic. And just buy (start with) i good condensor mike eg: RODE NT1 (about $250) it sounds good , and can sound as good as than some mics 3 times the price , and offers good bang for the buck. Its used for vocals, acoustic guitar , piano and can even handle the high spl's ok and lower frequencies like bass .., but generally more suited for mids to smooth highs - and later on you will always find a use for it .. There is many other types but this advic is to just get you started without wasting money next buy a Shure SM57 dynamic mic..., a tough , bullitproof studio workhorse , and a staple for guitar amps , drums (especially snare) and even used as a vocal mic sometimes (actually Bono and Micheal jackson liked to record vocals through one of these) .., but its vesatile .., so with these 2 mics and your decent preamp/interface you wont have wasted any money and youll be good to go . Do your homework on what Daw you want its very subjective as to what the best (or easiest) Reaper is the cheapest, cubase best for midi, the list goes on .., and like I said all is subjective and each has its own fan boys .., good luck
Last edited by SFG; 10/14/16 02:03 AM.
My Specs
Computer : Mac Pro (late 2013) - OS Yosemite 10.10.5
Processor : 3.5 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5
Memory : 64 GB 1866 MHz DDR3 ECC
Graphics : AMD FirePro D300 2048 MB
Interface : Avid Mbox 3 Pro
DAW : Pro Tools 12.6.0 (64 bit AAX)
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,379
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To get what you want, you might have to step outside of the box...so to speak... take the tracks to a full featured, easy to use DAW, and do some audio editing to get the result you want. So... in your example... you want the bass to hold a note while other instruments play and change to other chords. So.... in a DAW.... you simply let the other tracks play.... You insert a volume automation envelope and pull the bass OUT for the 2 measures. You insert a bass synth that sounds like the bass RT and play one note. waaa laaa. I did that on piano in Fools Errand. The entire piano track is a RT that plays all the way through. But, there comes a part where the piano is playing single and double note chords... that's a midi piano played by me. FOOLS ERRAND the part occurs between 3:24 and 3:53. Even an intent listener will not catch that it's two totally different pianos because I took the time to match the tonal quality of the mid to the RT. I do not hesitate to use MIDI in this manner when I need something that BB/RT's won't deliver easily. I find I have to think outside of the box quite often as I work with music. If I can accomplish it in BB/RB, well that's good and I do that... but if I run into the proverbial brick wall in BB/RB, I figure out how I can accomplish it in a different manner and set about finding that solution. It's amazing what you learn by doing that.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 10/14/16 03:37 PM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,753
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Tobias, for the bass only, you can specify pedal bass and have that do something different from the other instruments. Huh?, What is Pedal Bass? I've seen it in the preferences but I've never used it for anything. Is it for midi only or does it apply to RealTracks also? I always assumed it was some option for organ players to hook up their midi bass pedals/bass foot paddles to or through BIAB. What am I missing? What I'm mostly referring to is the stop - restrike of every instrument at the start of a new chord when the intention is to only hear certain instruments strike the new chord. Ex: You are probably familiar with editing a midi strings or synth track between bars. In Piano Roll Edit Window you can see and hear the end of the chord at the end of a measure and the start of the very same chord at the start of the very next measure. And, drawing out the ends of each note to fill the gap or deleting the next bar to prevent overlap and then drawing/dragging out the note lengths to where you want them to end. The behavior I'm after is to have guitar striking a chord (and perhaps an different chord) at the beginning of a bar while the strings sustain through the guitars chord changes without striking a new chord. Do you know how to create this behavior on a single BIAB chord sheet window?
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,753
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,753 |
To get what you want, you might have to step outside of the box...so to speak... take the tracks to a full featured, easy to use DAW, and do some audio editing to get the result you want. So... in your example... you want the bass to hold a note while other instruments play and change to other chords. So.... in a DAW.... you simply let the other tracks play.... You insert a volume automation envelope and pull the bass OUT for the 2 measures. You insert a bass synth that sounds like the bass RT and play one note. waaa laaa. I did that on piano in Fools Errand. The entire piano track is a RT that plays all the way through. But, there comes a part where the piano is playing single and double note chords... that's a midi piano played by me. FOOLS ERRAND the part occurs between 3:24 and 3:53. Even an intent listener will not catch that it's two totally different pianos because I took the time to match the tonal quality of the mid to the RT. I do not hesitate to use MIDI in this manner when I need something that BB/RT's won't deliver easily. I find I have to think outside of the box quite often as I work with music. If I can accomplish it in BB/RB, well that's good and I do that... but if I run into the proverbial brick wall in BB/RB, I figure out how I can accomplish it in a different manner and set about finding that solution. It's amazing what you learn by doing that. I think you understand what I'm after. I think it's this restrike every chord behavior that makes a song sound like it was done in BIAB. As I, hopefully, explained earlier in this thread, my work around has been to re-make the same chord sheet window with held bass and/or strings chords or no new chord at certain bars for the instruments that I do not want restiking. I do that by inserting an audio track of the more active instruments from the previous chord sheet. Of course I give the chord sheets different names. NewSong.SGU and NewSong_BassAndStrings.SGU for example. That way I always have the original version. Then I import the stems I want from each version. I just wish I could do it all in one chord sheet window 'cause I'm getting spoiled.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Posts: 886
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 886 |
Studios of course can use multiple tracks of different bit or sample rates; they are converted to the rates used in the master project, so that's not an obstacle for any DAW.
You comments about the final version in MP3 and most people not knowing the difference are true. In fact, it's your original question in reverse: even the regular version of BIAB is pretty hard to tell from the audiophile version. I have posted here many times on the small differences.
More headroom gives you both advantages you cited. Recording engineers would say that the ability to experiment with levels and effects without distortion is critical in mixing, but you always want to get a strong enough input signal on the original recorded track too.
My most important tool when mixing is Ozone by Izotope. It's nice when used sparingly but you can squash out all the dynamic range if you want to, like a poor radio station. I mix for an audiophile listener. If it works for them, it works for anyone. I wouldn't consider mixer just for an audiophile listener as your only considering 1% of listeners. You really want to mix for every enviorment, cheep earbuds, laptop speakers, cars, mono speakers, generally anywhere someone may be listening to your or anyone's music. The Audiophile thing is a joke. I read a post from an audio engineer facebook group about a guy who was aksed to make and aduiophile version of a song and only used stock plug-ins
Computer: Macbook Pro, 16 inch 2021
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 57
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[The Audiophile thing is a joke. I read a post from an audio engineer facebook group about a guy who was aksed to make and aduiophile version of a song and only used stock plug-ins Hi Islansoul, There is no special recipe to follow , but there are some established guidelines. Rules are also made to be broken (except when it comes to the risk of digital clipping) but first you need to put in the required time it takes to learn and understand those guidelines . After that many great mixing ideas can result from happy accidents and from breaking rules. Re; plugins , there is absolutely nothing wrong with stock plugins, they are just tools, but its the way in which these tools are used that makes all the difference..., just like a new car from the showroom that has it's OEM stock tires - even though there are better, more expensive tires on the market , that car still performs just fine with the stock tires. Mixing (and tracking) is all about trial and error , and A-B-ing to find the right balance for "You" and it's various intended listening environments. You will find a pro with a great range of 3rd party plugins would also be able to do a great job managing with stock plugins ..., you just need to "put in the time" to know your gear. Just to give you an example , a great producer "Joey Sturgis" is well known for being able to complete a great mix in a pro studio and equally as well on a laptop with headphones (and stock plugins) while recording and mixing in anyones garage .., but he 'put in the time' to work out the differences in listening environments using lots of trial and error comparisons to work out the correct adjustments required to still make it sound good 
My Specs
Computer : Mac Pro (late 2013) - OS Yosemite 10.10.5
Processor : 3.5 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5
Memory : 64 GB 1866 MHz DDR3 ECC
Graphics : AMD FirePro D300 2048 MB
Interface : Avid Mbox 3 Pro
DAW : Pro Tools 12.6.0 (64 bit AAX)
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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