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Joe V, you make an observation about the overwhelming nature of BIAB's UI about which I made this suggestion; but first, some history.
Some decades ago auto manufacturer Bentley reintroduced a model called the Lagonda. It was ultra high end, and priced to match; they only made 24 a year. It had a pre-digital dashboard with a panel that had 144 readouts. This was overwhelming for all but, say, military test pilots with ADD. So there was a button for essential readings, which cut it down to 12.
BIAB is almost intimidating in the amount of choices it offers. Powerful, but overwhelming. So I suggested an "essential controls" option for basic functions, and for the ability to customize the menus as such as certain versions of Windows did. There are functions which I know I will never use, so I feel I shouldn't have to wade through them every time I call up the dialog which contains them. (I posted these on the Wishlist long ago.)
Last edited by Ryszard; 10/23/16 04:11 AM.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Many naysayers would be shocked to learn how many top music schools are currently teaching BIAB in their curricula. Perhaps we are only on the bleeding edge of music technology in education. Although the software has been available for some years, music educators are only now being made aware. I firmly believe that today's music students will open the floodgates soon.
It is also being taught in Broadcasting Courses at Green River College and Illinois State University (Don Gaynor Special Needs Music Department (Blushing)) as well as Julliard College of Music, Temple University, and many others worldwide.
I am very pleased to be propagating PG Music whenever/wherever I can.
There is a predictable lag while these first tier students complete their education.
Don
Last edited by Don Gaynor; 10/23/16 11:35 AM.
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suggestion: create a cheaper, phone-based BB that is equally simple as iReal pro, but includes the beautifully sophisticated arrangements as current BB. There is something with Microsoft in collaboration with PG but I can't remember the name of it. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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suggestion: create a cheaper, phone-based BB that is equally simple as iReal pro, but includes the beautifully sophisticated arrangements as current BB. There is something with Microsoft in collaboration with PG but I can't remember the name of it. Bob Microsoft Songsmith
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Guess I'm a bit of the odd man out -- there's ample precedent:) I like the array of options available as buttons on the primary page. The alternative is drilling down through menus or remembering short cut keys. For somebody interested in a quick creation of a few backing tracks I think the routine would come quickly particularly given the huge numbers of styles. From help screens to videos to google there's a lot of quick info on how to accomplish certain tasks. My first version was 2011 and I was able to noodle around and create my first production rather quickly. My DAW (Logic Pro X) may have a more trendy GUI but initially it was much more intimidating and harder to scale down to my needs than BIaB. Logic has a "dumb down" mode but it is not configurable and it kills options that even a newbie would quickly need.
Admittedly I harness only a small percentage of the power of both Logic and BiaB but I find it easier with BiaB to learn new procedures. However as a Mac version beta tester I do get exposure to a lot of BiaB that I don't typically use. It's remarkable how many different ways this program can be used and yield a high quality output. Pardon another ole phart ramble.
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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All this talk about UIs prompts me to remark that as a long-time Mac user I continue to find BIAB's UI decidedly PC-like ie overwrought and unattractive. As Mac users we are used to a certain slickness/cleverness in design. This matters on a brand level because the overwhelming majority of professional studios use Macs and they too are used to the Mac way. I believe that a sound strategy for PG to gain mainstream acceptance is to get pro acceptance. Then schools, music courses etc will feel obliged to introduce BIAB to their students. As it stands, BIAB has a kind of home hobbyist image that undermines its powerful functionality.
I don't mean to raise anyone's ire btw. I usually try to stay away from the usual Mac/PC needling.
On a related note, given that the realtrack concept surely has to be the way forward for music I'd very surprised if some big companies (I'm thinking the Apple Logic team for instance) aren't already working on their own algorithms. There are opportunities and threats in the market for PG. It's interesting to read that PG has partnered with Microsoft. I hope that's the right way forward.
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Ryszard - I think your question might be phrased in a misleading way. I happen to know you and I have a lot in common. Rather than phrase it as 'selling people on BB' - I think you meant that you love to SHARE YOUR ENTHUSIASM for the program and are surprised that others don't see the value and share your excitement at what it does.
Good thing you don't have to sell anything - PG has to do that : )
It's way less pressure to share enthusiasm for something you believe in than to be involved in its financials.
That said - it's funny how much we are all so enthusiastic enough about the program that we love to give our "marketing / product development" strategies to Peter and his crew. It's almost like (maybe exactly like) - we wish we developed it and took it to the point it is now, and could help determine its future ; )
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Songsmith is designed to take a melody you sing (record), then figure out a chord progression around it, then give you an arrangement by using PGMusic provided styles. It will definitely give you some weird results, since the chord progression is based on what you sing (good, bad, or indifferent). I bought it a number of years ago (it wasn't very expensive) along with the additional PGMusic styles, but was never very satisfied with the results. I've still got it on my computer still, but never use it. I don't think its core functionality has been updated in a very long time.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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I've been singing the praises of BIAB for about 20 years now and I'm always surprised when people say they've never heard of it or never tried it. I've even heard some say the name, "Band-in-a-Box" makes the product sound gimmicky or amateurish. Strange. Basically, I think most people have enough trouble learning to play and/or sing with any proficiency to get very deeply into the technical aspects of production and mixing. They just want to get recorded. At least that's been my experience. I've used BIAB for decades, from making backing tracks for students, to creating full-production album projects, and most importantly for my own original music. I'd been recording my own creations since the late 60s with a TEAC reel-to-reel and had spent a lot of time and money in big studios working on projects when I discovered BIAB. The first day I installed it (from floppy discs no less) I stayed up till 2am playing with it. It was the mid 90s and I was in the process of building my own project studio which I wanted to be as self-contained as possible. I wanted to do it all, and BIAB seemed to be the answer to a prayer. Twenty years later I'm still convinced of the validity of that idea. If you've ever spent any time in a big high-end studio, paying $150/hr or more for tracking and mixing, you know how much BIAB is like a big studio project at a fraction of the cost. Real Tracks and Real Drums has taken the product to the professional level. Some of the current Real Tracks artists are friends on FB. Most of them I couldn't afford to hire even if they didn't live 1,200 miles away. I watched closely back in '85 while a famous producer brought in the best studio cats to lay down tracks for my first original album project. Not unlike BIAB, he had each sideman play along with the basic tracks and then had them "regenerate" their performance to suit his taste and vision of the song. Sound familiar? Thirty years later these are my observations: Great players have a broad lexicon of great licks and phrases to add to your song. Local "hot pickers" may be just as talented with a smaller musical vocabulary. But the process is the same. They play along until YOU find something YOU like. Sidemen usually get about $100 per song to do studio recording. It's adds up fast. That first album project cost me about $20k, no small amount in '85. I got a great production and mixing education to be sure. But, since then I've done much better projects with BIAB at a tiny fraction of the cost, both for me and my clients. I've produced nine full album projects for one well-known Colorado artist/songwriter and I've used BIAB on every song on every album in some way. He claims his albums are better than any he's heard from other local pros. Can't argue with success. I'm to the point now where I figure BIAB should be primarily a producer/engineer music creation tool. And I've pretty much stopped trying to get people to try it. Mostly, I just show them what it can do and let it be. Besides, I get paid pretty well for doing what I do...and who wants the competition.  Maybe they should change the name to PG Music Authoring Software. Something a little more classy. On second though, just leave it like it is. No need to crowd the market, eh?
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Besides, I get paid pretty well for doing what I do...and who wants the competition. Maybe they should change the name to PG Music Authoring Software. Something a little more classy. On second though, just leave it like it is. No need to crowd the market, eh? I agree 100%!  Seems like there are 4 possible outcomes from me trying to convince someone of how good BIAB is... 1) they look at the GUI and overall complexity or listen to the stock MIDI results of the starter package and decide it is lame 2) they see its power and then say I am cheating 3) they don't care either way. 4) they love it and start producing high-quality music to compete with me None of these results help me!
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 10/24/16 11:09 AM.
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Along this topic I recently had the opportunity and pleasure to sit down with one of my favorite on-line music educators. This guy is big on the web and you-tube and is a fantastic musician and teacher. I have followed him for years and never the mention from him of BIAB. So I took the opportunity to ask him about it. Well, I was shocked by his response. "...of course I know it, it is fantastic! I have the current version...". So I asked, how is it you have never ever mentioned it in any of your videos or lessons? His answer was simple " It is the competition and no one advertises the competition."
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
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eddie1261
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2) they see its power and then say I am cheating
When they say you are cheating, ask them how many Beach Boys they think played on Good Vibrations. And if they ever heard of The Wrecking Crew. Wasn't The Wrecking Crew nothing more than live people doing what BIAB/RB does? Roger McGuinn says in The Wrecking Crew movie how angry the members of The Byrds were when the studio cats did the music for their albums. In the next sentence, he also reveals that when they finally DID play live, the intro to Turn Turn Turn took 77 takes.
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So jazzmandan - who is the mystery music educator ? I'd love to check out his online stuff.
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BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
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In a way, I guess it is cheating, as The Wrecking Crew, The Swampers, dubbing vocals for actors in movies, and so on. But in another way it's just another tool to be used to make something with.
When I started doing computer backgrounds with my Atari/ST computer, other musicians told me "You are going to put musicians out of work with that." I replied, "I am going to put a musician to work with that, me."
Later on. many of those same musicians who criticized my use of the computer are buying styles from me, buying karaoke tracks on-line or full sequences from somebody else.
I suppose the first "Sideman" drum machine was the first cheat. Or perhaps the capo? But things that are called cheating one day become normal the next.
I still play live with backing tracks that I make myself, many with the help of BiaB and a couple totally BiaB. I'm still in the same duo I started with that Atari in 1985, and we're still gigging with 17 one-nighters this month.
I do 100% MIDI backing tracks and Leilani and I sing and play either guitar, synth, wind synth, sax, or flute over the top.
I prefer MIDI over RTs for live performance, because the mix needs to be different live than it does for a recording. Hotter snare drums, exaggerated horn stabs, more dynamics on the bass and most other instruments. Plus the groove should often be exaggerated. It makes it sound more live to the audience.
Whatever, it's working.
If it's cheating, so be it.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Will - PG Music
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The fitness trainer asked me, "What kind of a squat are you accustomed to doing?" I said, "Diddly."
64 bit Win 11 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I was at church one morning and we were doing some upbeat music. I was using my arranger keyboard's built in styles, but also playing stuff myself on the keyboard, along with two guitarists (we didn't have a drummer or bass player at the time). Really, not much different than using a BIAB style.
After awhile, someone came up and watched for awhile at what I was doing and then he said "Hey, that's cheating. You're just pushing buttons" (of course I was playing the keys also, but whatever...)
I looked at him and said, "Ah, but I know which buttons to push! Would you like to try?" He respected and appreciated the effort after that.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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A wise variation on that old saw about the unsolvable engine problem where they finally call in the expert. He makes one tap of the hammer which fixes it and presents his bill for $10,000. They complain, "All you did is one little tap of the hammer!" and he says, "Yes, but I knew where to tap".
Great answer John.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
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-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
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- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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