Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
Off-Topic
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,179
rharv Offline OP
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,179
I've spent a lot of years analyzing music. Thought I'd share this observation.

When recording/generating new songs pay close attention to the foundation. Make sure the bass drum and Bass guitar player are in total sync.
Not the snare so much, but the bass drum (this is key).

Once this happens everything else has something to play off of.
Whether 'laying on the beat' or 'pushing it' there is a foundation.

If the bass/ bass drum tracks are tight, everything else has a much better chance to work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA4tbVUG6Iw

This applies to a lot of successful recordings from this old sample to Dave Mathews and Yes and King Crimson and RAP.
Get the foundation right (bass gtr/ bass drum) and the rest has a much better chance to fit.

In this example there are 2 drummers; Peter Erskine is playing drums on the left channel and Rick Marriota is on the right .. even though you notice their hi-hat and snare differences their bass drum is pretty dang accurate. They laid the foundation. Then everything else could fit right.

/yes I have this on vinyl .. I have many weird things like this; why 2 drummers?
dunno but it works


//If you like experimental stuff from years ago listen to this one (it really accentuates the double drummers concept, but still solid and more complex)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4zLg1XPOqU

Get the foundation right and everything has a much better chance of working!

/// How did they get 2 drummers to play it right, when I have to fight with the 1 I have to work with??!?








I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
Off-Topic
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,383
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,383
Absolutely!!

With a good bass player and a solid drummer, you have the foundation upon which to build whatever else you want. You wouldn't build a house directly on the ground. You always construct a solid footing and foundation first.

Some of the best drummers I have seen play live, had basic kits.... small kits. A Kick, a snare, high hat, one cymbal, and a tom or two. In fact, I saw one drummer carry a small kick, with one cymbal connected to it and a snare on a stand.....and that was his kit. 3 pieces and when he played, you knew there was a solid beat to the music. He didn't even have a seat... he stood the entire time.

One song I always point people towards when this topic comes up is the song Black Velvet.

Black Velvet

Essentially a bass/drum groove song that illustrates the concept being discussed, perfectly.


You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com
Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.
You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.

The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,732
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,732
+1 on the both of you for this topic.




Steve

BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 408
W
PG Music Staff
Offline
PG Music Staff
W
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 408
I completely agree as well! A good rhythm section is absolutely crucial, and like Herb says about those basic drum kits, simplicity is key! A great video for this is Bootsy talking about the basic funk formula:



Reggae tunes are also incredible places to look for this kind of rhythm section perfectionism.


Will - PG Music
Off-Topic
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 20,332
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 20,332
Good Excellent tips Bob.

I was not ale to view the YouTube videos unfortunately.

I totally agree with that all important foundation.

What's that gag? Q: How do you know when a drummer's at the door delivering your pizza?

A:The knock gets faster. wink


BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Off-Topic
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,382
K
PG Music Staff
Offline
PG Music Staff
K
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,382
Hi,

There's a neurological reason for this too, our brains are much better at detecting differences in pitch at higher frequencies, and are better at detecting differences in timing at lower frequencies.

This explains why lower-pitched instruments carry the rhythm in the music of cultures all over the world.

http://www.nature.com/news/rhythm-is-heard-best-in-the-bass-1.15481

Cheers
Kent
PG Music

Off-Topic
E
eddie1261
Unregistered
eddie1261
Unregistered
E
Originally Posted By: rharv
/// How did they get 2 drummers to play it right, when I have to fight with the 1 I have to work with??!?


If you have to fight, it might be time to fire....

Off-Topic
E
eddie1261
Unregistered
eddie1261
Unregistered
E
Originally Posted By: Kent - PG Music
This explains why lower-pitched instruments carry the rhythm in the music of cultures all over the world.


Yet nobody takes them seriously because they are, you know, bass players....

You know what you call a bass player with a pager?




Optimistic.

Off-Topic
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,179
rharv Offline OP
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,179
Glad the topic was enjoyed. Some may need the reminder every once in a while.

I walked into a studio a few weeks ago and the guy was getting his guitars just right. He was cutting/pasting, lining things up .. with no bass/drums.

I knew it was going to be a long day.

/Heh, just noticed; John Tropea album supplied to youtube by CDBaby.
very interesting since this was copyrighted 35 years ago ..


I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,294
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,294
Originally Posted By: eddie1261
Originally Posted By: Kent - PG Music
This explains why lower-pitched instruments carry the rhythm in the music of cultures all over the world.


Yet nobody takes them seriously because they are, you know, bass players....

You know what you call a bass player with a pager?




Optimistic.


Good one!

What do you call a beautiful women with a bass player?


A tattoo!


I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!


64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!

It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!

We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!

Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:

Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!

Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!

New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!

We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!

Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!

Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.

Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles

Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)

And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.

You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.

Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!

The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!

Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!

With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!

These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!

This Free Bonus PAK includes:

  • The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK: -For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles. -For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles. -For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
  • Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
  • Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
  • MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
  • Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
  • Playable RealTracks Set 4
  • RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
  • SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
  • 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.

Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:

  • 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
  • FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
  • Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
  • Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
  • MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
  • Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
  • RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe

Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!

New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!

Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!

We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!

In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!

All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.

Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!

We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!

We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!

If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!

Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.

Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!

Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!

We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!

In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!

All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.

Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!

We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!

We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!

If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!

Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.

Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

Forum Statistics
Forums58
Topics84,411
Posts778,911
Members39,651
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
Newest Members
Leviatin, RattyCathy, Parsinux, Mike McVay, misha pelt
39,650 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 128
WaoBand 114
DC Ron 106
dcuny 86
rsdean 75
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5