|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
Since this new forum is for songwriting tips and tricks, I thought I might offer one or two from my limited experience. They may not work for you, but hopefully someone might find some benefit. Start with the Hook. Write backwards from there. In other words, make your statement in the Hook, then fill in the story in the verses. The Hook is what people remember and sing along with. Think about your favorite songs- what draws you into them? What do you repeat every time it comes around? The Hook. This method is similar to one novel-writing method, where the novelist starts with the climax and works backward from there. The Hook can be a clever play on words, a guitar riff (i.e. “Satisfaction”), or an anthemic repeat (i.e. “We Will Rock You”, “Give Peace A Chance”), but it must be catchy. The “catchy” is usually the hard part for me.  Merry Christmas! Regards, Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,325
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,325 |
Since this new forum is for songwriting tips and tricks, I thought I might offer one or two from my limited experience. They may not work for you, but hopefully someone might find some benefit. Start with the Hook. Write backwards from there.Regards,Bob Mornin' Captain.... I have completed songs with the above approach. Frequently the "hook" will be part of pre-chorus/chorus lyrics and will actually be defining lyric of the song subject anyway. For me.... most of the time I come up with a song subject. Sometimes the hook comes first, sometimes I start fleshing out the lyrical story lines and then the hook will come to me. If the mood of the song subject has some tension then I'd likely start with minor chord but the chorus could get a major tonality. But, I've written from all approaches already mentioned whether it be hook first, subject first, music first then subject comes to mind. I am able to hear music/arrangements in my head during writing or contemplating the direction of a song effort. It's all good...it just isn't easy. The more I know about a song subject the easier it comes to me. The less I know, the more I have to really concentrate on the creative process of originality with lyrics and phrasing. I have to work at it to get it to my satisfaction.  Carry on....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 12/19/16 04:56 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,370
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,370 |
Indeed. Excellent points.
It's called "the hook" because that's what it does.... it hooks you. It sinks it's claws in and holds on.
When people on the street are asked to "sing a song" they know, most will head right into the chorus and nail the hook. It's the part that we remember the best because it is catchy and easy to remember.
Normally the hook is found in the chorus but not always. Often, the hook can also be the title, but again, not always.
As Bob pointed out, the hook doesn't have to be in the verbal part of the song. When I say the name of a song.... BAKER STREET for example. If you know that song, the first thing that comes to your mind is that memorable Sax riff. Most people would be very hard pressed to recall even one of the vocal lines of that song but that Sax riff is one that very few people will forget. It's the hook.
Do you want people to remember your song? If so, you need to learn the art and craft of writing a good hook. I've heard a bunch of songs without a memorable hook in them. That's really not the thing you want to be doing when writing. Some times the hooks are hard to create, as Bob mentioned, but in other cases, they just seem to come naturally and so easy.
More than once, I have done what Bob suggests in his post. Start with the title or the hook and flesh out the verses and chorus from there. Working backwards is a good idea at times. Most of the time I do start my songs with the chorus and the hook/title. That seems to be the "easy" way for me. Verses are after the fact, and for me, it's harder to create a good solid series of verse. But that's a topic for another thread.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,296 |
Since this new forum is for songwriting tips and tricks, I thought I might offer one or two from my limited experience. They may not work for you, but hopefully someone might find some benefit. Start with the Hook. Write backwards from there. In other words, make your statement in the Hook, then fill in the story in the verses. The Hook is what people remember and sing along with. Think about your favorite songs- what draws you into them? What do you repeat every time it comes around? The Hook. This method is similar to one novel-writing method, where the novelist starts with the climax and works backward from there. The Hook can be a clever play on words, a guitar riff (i.e. “Satisfaction”), or an anthemic repeat (i.e. “We Will Rock You”, “Give Peace A Chance”), but it must be catchy. The “catchy” is usually the hard part for me. Merry Christmas! Regards, Bob I'm printing that out! As simple as it is, I forget that too often to not have it in front of me! EXCELLENT! Thank you! BTW...this applies well to lyrics as well! I get you implied that, but I flat out said it to remind myself from time to time!
Last edited by HearToLearn; 12/19/16 04:52 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,338
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,338 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
I would call that a "treble" hook. Merry Christmas! Regards, Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
I also think about something I call "turn" of the phrase, like the Eagles "Don't let the sound of your own WHEELS DRIVE you crazy", because wheels are on a car and you drive a car. There are more like that but I just woke up....
One of my new songs has the phrase "It's not easy remembering how to forget". See? Remember vs forget. Antonyms.
Floyd's "trying to remember the feeling, (of) feeling nothing at all." Feeling and not feeling. Antonyms.
A song I wrote about 25 years ago had a chorus that was a call and response type thing where the start of the line was "Kiss you all over", but it didn't mean "all over your body", but that was not clear until the end of the chorus where I say "Kiss you all over, kiss you all over again", so "all over" meant repeat the action. I named that a "wraparound lyric" because it wrapped from the end of one line into the start of the next.
There are SO many innovative ways to do this, and it's YOUR song, so do what you want!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 15,415
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 15,415 |
I'm light years from being a prolific writer. However, for the songs that I've written or co-written that I consider to be good efforts the hook has invariably come first. And most of them have come while mountain biking. For the two of us mountain biking on technical (tough) trails is almost Zen like, i.e., the more we focus on the trail the more free we become. It's at these moments that a hook will come to mind -- one that often has nothing to do with where we are riding.
A few years ago we were riding a trail that, in large, consisted of a course that the two of us had raced on many times over the years. I was thinking about how much more fun I was having than when I was suffering like a dog in a race and into my head popped "The Outskirts of Fun" which became one of our country writes.
Now were it just as simple to take that hook and create a finished song...I'm very slow. Janice could create a boat load of melodies in the time it takes me to write one lyric.
Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
"But, I've written from all approaches already mentioned whether it be hook first, subject first, music first then subject comes to mind.
I am able to hear music/arrangements in my head during writing or contemplating the direction of a song effort."
Mornin' Cpl.,
That's the fun part for me too. Imagining the song before picking up the guitar and making it tangible.
Merry Christmas and Semper Fi
"Good night, Chesty, wherever you are"
Regards,
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
"I'm light years from being a prolific writer. However, for the songs that I've written or co-written that I consider to be good efforts the hook has invariably come first. And most of them have come while mountain biking. For the two of us mountain biking on technical (tough) trails is almost Zen like, i.e., the more we focus on the trail the more free we become. It's at these moments that a hook will come to mind -- one that often has nothing to do with where we are riding." Ah.....you're hearing the voices too! Merry Christmas I75!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,325
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,325 |
Mornin' Cpl., That's the fun part for me too. Imagining the song before picking up the guitar and making it tangible. Merry Christmas and Semper Fi "Good night, Chesty, wherever you are".Regards, Bob Haha....reveille Captain... I totally agree...the imagining of a newly chosen subject to write about is what gets my mind going. (more slowly than I like in most cases) I'd say all my songs reflect different subjects and my take on certain aspects of life or my attitude toward them. (Yeah...I'm sure Brother Chesty is out there somewhere setting a good example for all Marines. :)) Back to it....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
Join the conversation on our forum.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums58
Topics84,379
Posts778,466
Members39,635
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean