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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 221
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 221 |
Tired with my rather ad hoc approach to mixing electric guitar, recently I decided to scour the 'net to find some method amongst the madness. Having just finished a mix session with a lot more purpose and results I'm happy with for the song, I thought I'd summarise what I found. Hopefully this will help some. And hopefully you more experienced mixers will chime in with your thoughts.
This summary assumes you're in the ballpark with your guitar/amp combo. (Easier said than done!)
Approach one.
Simple. Insert 'Waves CLA guitars'. As many report, it just works.
Approach two.
Inserts in sequence:
EQ. See below for go-to frequencies.
Compression. Fast attack. Medium or fast release depending on desired sound.
Effects:
Slap delay. Around 100ms.
Room reverb. Roll off low frequencies.
Sauce as desired. Eg phaser, chorus.
EQ frequencies
1. Roll off below 80-150 Hz
2. Cut 100-150 if bass frequencies masking bass guitar. Or boost for more bass.
3. Boost 250 for warmth if desired, but may add mud.
4. Sweep from 250 to 4000 for offending frequency/s. Poss 800.
5. Cut 2000-2500 if harsh.
6. Boost 2000-3000 for snap of pick
7. Boost 3000-5000 to push guitar up front, or cut to keep clear of vocal
8. Boost 10000 for clarity
9. Roll off above 12000.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,954
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,954 |
Is it recorded DI or with FX, a DI box is the best way to record it so as you are playing/recorcing you get the live FX but record the DI and the FX track also if you like. So after you can add any FX to the DI track rather than having too much reverb in the track.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,378
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,378 |
For me, the position of the mic and the EQ used is crucial to getting a realistic sound that duplicates what you hear in the room.
This does apply to both acoustic and electric but tends, at least in my case, to be more critical with an acoustic guitar.
Regarding mics on electrics: Of course you want to have the sound and tone you are seeking to be dialed in first and foremost.
FX: Go light on reverb because once printed, you can't remove it but you can always add more. If you like chorus and phasers and echo's, use them if you wish. As a player, I would rather select and use my FX on the sound. However, adding it in the channel strip in the DAW does have advantages. If you're looking for the slapback echo to match the tempo, it's much easier to do in in the DAW where you can set the delay tempo precisely to keep sync with the song tempo.
Be careful with dual mic setups for room ambience because you can easily get comb filtering issues you don't want. The most pressing issue is for the only or primary mic to be placed correctly. On axis, off axis, at what degree off axis, dead center on the cone or more off to one side or the other, what part of the cone, front or back of the speaker, and how far or close to the cone in the position you selected.... did I miss anything on the speaker placement? And yeah, sometimes you have multiple mics on the speakers especially if the cabinet is a 2 or 4 speaker cab with uniquely different speakers chosen for their tonal characteristics, PLUS a room mic.
Getting started in mic'ing the speaker of an amp, start simple and use one mic.
Then you also have mic choice. Many folks use dynamic mics since volumes are generally high enough that a Shure 57 or 58, for example, will pick up just fine and sound good and can handle the higher sound pressure levels found at a few inches from a guitar amp speaker just fine. Others use a condenser mic on speakers. Please check your condenser mic's operator instruction manual to see if it can handle loud amps.... some can and some can not. Word of caution, be very careful if you have a ribbon mic as these can easily be damaged by high sound pressure levels so it's advised not to use a ribbon on an amp close up. I won't go into all the mic possibilities because most home studios have one or two mics and we have to use what we have.
Acoustic mics: I prefer to use a condenser mic due to it's much more sensitive nature to pick up nuances in tone that a dynamic would miss and it's ability to work at a greater distance from the source. Ribbon mics, if you have one, can be used fairly well on an acoustic guitar with much success.
Much of the same things apply here as they did with the electric guitar, but this is one case where working with 2 mics in a stereo configuration may actually be to your advantage. Many recording enthusiasts use a body mic and a neck mic placed 12 to 24 inches from the guitar in their respective positions. Use of position and EQ to reduce boom and honk from the guitar body without losing the warmth of the tone is the critical aspect here. It takes time and experimentation ( and that can be a lot of time and experimenting) to get this right. Once it's attained, it's fairly easy to get the setup from that point on. (at least in my experience... but you still have to check it before hitting the record button on a take)
The mic on the neck picks up the string noise, fret noise and the higher end of the sound a bit more clearly. All of that is part of the acoustic experience.
This short post doesn't even scratch the surface on this topic. So, it you want to learn more about this interesting aspect of recording, do your research and go to some of the books and experts that have written on this topic. There is much to learn regarding the proper use of mics.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 221
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 221 |
I tend to DI electric guitar because it gives me much more control with how the guitar blends with other instruments. The exception is when the guitar is the hero of the mix, in which case I like to fire up the trusty valve amp sitting beside me. My preferred amp sim (Revalver 4) provides a ton of mic options so what you are saying about mic placement etc definitely applies in any case.
In an SOS mag article, they say Nashville session guitarists tend to mix their own tracks on input. The engineer has very little to do. I guess that's fine if you're a tone hound with a stack of pedals you know how to use. Sounds like you, Herb.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,378
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,378 |
I tend to DI electric guitar because it gives me much more control .....
In an SOS mag article, they say Nashville session guitarists tend to mix their own tracks on input. The engineer has very little to do. I guess that's fine if you're a tone hound with a stack of pedals you know how to use. Sounds like you, Herb. I use a POD2 on maybe half the electric guitar work I do these days. It's so much quicker and quieter. Works well when my wife is watching TV. I like good tone and by that definition, perhaps I'm a tone hound..... but I don't use but just one pedal and it's a bit of a cleaner sounding preamp/gain thing. Other than that, it's straight into the POD or the Mesa. How do I spell TONE? M.E.S.A. (Studio Boogie 22w)
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 886
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 886 |
Tired with my rather ad hoc approach to mixing electric guitar, recently I decided to scour the 'net to find some method amongst the madness. Having just finished a mix session with a lot more purpose and results I'm happy with for the song, I thought I'd summarise what I found. Hopefully this will help some. And hopefully you more experienced mixers will chime in with your thoughts.
This summary assumes you're in the ballpark with your guitar/amp combo. (Easier said than done!)
Approach one.
Simple. Insert 'Waves CLA guitars'. As many report, it just works.
Approach two.
Inserts in sequence:
EQ. See below for go-to frequencies.
Compression. Fast attack. Medium or fast release depending on desired sound.
Effects:
Slap delay. Around 100ms.
Room reverb. Roll off low frequencies.
Sauce as desired. Eg phaser, chorus.
EQ frequencies
1. Roll off below 80-150 Hz
2. Cut 100-150 if bass frequencies masking bass guitar. Or boost for more bass.
3. Boost 250 for warmth if desired, but may add mud.
4. Sweep from 250 to 4000 for offending frequency/s. Poss 800.
5. Cut 2000-2500 if harsh.
6. Boost 2000-3000 for snap of pick
7. Boost 3000-5000 to push guitar up front, or cut to keep clear of vocal
8. Boost 10000 for clarity
9. Roll off above 12000.
I would have to listen to the song before I could tell you what I would do in the mix, because I can't just randomly pick one of the options. Most of the time when EQing you really want to be cutting out all the harsh frequencies, rather than bosting certian frequencies. However, be careful about cutting out alot of frequencies just becasue you hear something that sound weird, as it may an overtone, fundamental, or even a harmonic with certian notes. I have trouble with EQing when I mix, so most of the time I hardly ever EQ when I mix my backing tracks and I find the real tracks don't need any EQing, plus my room is not well treated. I really should do some songwriting, reocrding , producing and mixing so I can really get my skills down. It is so much fun. I'm glad you like the CLA guitar plug in. My favorite plugin on electric guitar, and even acoustic is the Kramer Pie. You only need a little bit of it to get just the right amount.
Computer: Macbook Pro, 16 inch 2021
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,378
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,378 |
I would have to listen to the song before I could tell you what I would do in the mix, because I can't just randomly pick one of the options. Most of the time when EQing you really want to be cutting out all the harsh frequencies, rather than bosting certian frequencies. However, be careful about cutting out alot of frequencies just becasue you hear something that sound weird, as it may an overtone, fundamental, or even a harmonic with certian notes. I have trouble with EQing when I mix, so most of the time I hardly ever EQ when I mix my backing tracks and I find the real tracks don't need any EQing, plus my room is not well treated. I really should do some songwriting, reocrding , producing and mixing so I can really get my skills down. It is so much fun. I'm glad you like the CLA guitar plug in. My favorite plugin on electric guitar, and even acoustic is the Kramer Pie. You only need a little bit of it to get just the right amount.
Exactly. THis is why some producers say to NOT use presets. What worked in one song may not necessarily work in the next. I can vouch for that. Presets are a good starting point, but that's about as far as they go. You have to tweek them from that point. Cut before boosting and if your EQ looks like a mountain range, you're probably not doing it right. EQ on a solo guitar will be totally different in many cases from EQ on the same guitar in a band mix. It's more "art" then "science" but it requires both and a good ear to know what needs cutting or boosting.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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