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A few days ago Janice and I were looking for some old photos and ran across some of our contracts from our bluegrass band gig days. That caused me to reflect on the prices over the years - relative only to my experience.
In the 60's while in college myself and another guy booked (and recorded) talented garage bands...mostly to frat houses and small clubs. Typical amount was $200-$300.
In the 70's I played in several bluegrass bands and we booked clubs and various events for $300-$500.
In the 80's, 90's and very early 2000's Janice and I played in a couple of BG bands that worked regularly (too regularly for our tastes) for yep $300-$500 (three sets) with the only exception being weekend long festivals.
In what other situation would payment for services have remained so constant over 35 years? Anybody have similar experiences?
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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You are correct. In real dollars, the compensation has actually declined over time. When you factor inflation, it's a mighty grim picture for musicians. Anyone playing today is playing for less than those of us who were gigging 30 years ago. Compare the price of gas, motel rooms, vehicles, gear, meals, and living expenses back then to now. Everything has risen but the wages for a band remain the same essentially. We could book motel rooms for $25 a night or $35 at the Holiday Inn.... try to find decent room now for under $90. You could hit a nice restaurant and get a decent (not fast food) meal for around or under $5. That same meal today is closer to $20 if not more.
Who's to blame? The clubs for exploiting the bands? The musicians themselves for undercutting each other and undervaluing their music? The perception of the people for thinking music is supposed to be cheap or free and not being willing to pay to see live bands? Solo guys with backing tracks on a computer who will work cheaper than a 4 piece band?
or.... all of the above?
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Good analysis. Fortunately other than in the 60's I was doing it for what I thought was "the art."  I had convinced myself that playing in a five piece band for peanuts was worth it as we were spreading the bluegrass love. Throughout most of the years Janice and I played I had a "had to be there" high pressure career as a hospital administrator. Janice also worked in the same field. So we'd wipe out our weekend playing a frat somewhere or a bank opening or wedding reception and imagining it was worth it. We didn't need the money but I demanded the most we could get. I remember telling one big buck guy who wanted us for a wedding reception that maybe he should figure out what it would cost to get five plumbers come to his lake house on the weekend and stay for five hours including a 200 mile roundtrip drive. I'm sure he paid a helluva lot more for food than our $500. Gimme BiaB any day of the week! It's more fun and we stay on the homestead. Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Who's to blame? The clubs for exploiting the bands? The musicians themselves for undercutting each other and undervaluing their music? The perception of the people for thinking music is supposed to be cheap or free and not being willing to pay to see live bands? Solo guys with backing tracks on a computer who will work cheaper than a 4 piece band?
or.... all of the above? I go with all of the above. People are eager to just play ANYWHERE. I saw an event on The Book of Face for a girl playing in a neighborhood bakery!! "I'll take a dozen oatmeal raisin and do you know I Fall To Pieces?"
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Well, back in the day, I was in several working bands. Most of those were weekend warrior bands. One of them was a full time working band. We didn't cut prices to try to get gigs, in fact we went in the other direction. Yeah we did a number of cheap or free gigs on Wed nights when we were getting started, to get in the door of clubs that had big paydays and only booked the top bands. One "free audition" we played was at a club that booked only the regional level bands. The deal was we played one set and if he liked us, he'd book us, if not we went home with nothing. At the end of the set, the place was packed and the crowd was having a good time. The manager told us we'd get several bookings and if we wanted to, we could play another set and he'd pay us the door take. We looked at the crowd and said heck yes. It was a good payday for a "free audition" on a Wednesday night.
We were a 3 piece band and were charging the same thing as bands with 5 and 6 members in the same clubs. We got it too. In addition to that, we were also the highest paid band in the military club system at the time. Our 3 piece band was making bigger paychecks than bands with twice the members on stage. One reason.... we were the favored band by the club managers and the audience reaction was always outstanding. We could load in and out in short order, something the managers liked at closing time, we started on time and kept our breaks to the contracted limits, and we were flexible in our dealings with the clubs.
We had many clubs balk at our asking price for a weekend. They'd counter with something like..... our best band only gets $X.00 for the weekend. Sometimes we could reach a deal and other times not. Often we'd play the first weekend at or closer to their comfort zone price.... one time. We played one of our first gigs as a band, at a club we had booked as a 4 piece band. Our singer/guitarist never showed up. We played the gig as a 3 piece band and brought the house down. The manager tried to short us based on math. We stood firm and he paid the full price. We re-booked that gig and played there several more times with no issues over money.
We were all full time musicians. We played normally 4 to 6 nights a week. Weeknights were generally less money but weekends were full price. We did pretty good. I was the booking agent and stayed busy keeping our band working. The drummer and bass player handled the PR stuff and collecting the money at the gigs. We all had our specialty.
Times have changed. Yep... I have "musical event dates" come across my FB page all the time.... singer playing at a seafood restaurant.... singer playing at a pizza joint..... I know that's not a high paying gig.... probably $50 and a meal.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Cool story. It reminds me of a band I was managing/booking and traveling with during an "out of college for the summer" time - the mid 60's. The gig was the Old Dutch club in Panama City, Florida. Played five nights a week and on just about every Sunday the owner would audition a band...if he liked them more they got the current band's job at the end of their contract (usually two weeks). But, hey, we got the gig that way so we knew what to expect. They had "quarters" for the band in the basement and the previous tenants got POed when they lost the gig and let their dog poop all over the two rooms. Seems grim at the moment but when you're 20 and have a two week beach gig it was a very small inconvenience.
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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There ain't no money in playing music. Never was. Never will be.
Regards,
Bob
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Pay was bad 30 years ago and it's beyond bad now.
Just MHO, it's due to gazillions of players like all of us here being lured into gigging for fun, exposure and of course, chicks. I'm sure this was true in the 20's but now we have (pick a number) untold thousands of kids getting music degrees either performing degrees or production degrees or both.
Here is LA we have an NPR station called KKJZ that's all jazz during the week but they have a great blues show on Saturday and Sunday afternoons. Part of that show is called the Indie Hour where the DJ showcases one or two bands. These recordings are absolutely first class and so is the playing. My only problem with it is there is no original sound. It's all guitar based and everybody sounds exactly like (name your favorite blues/rock guy) from Clapton to SRV to Alvin Lee to BB King you name it. They have all the licks and character of the sound absolutely perfect. And they're all technical monsters. I listen to this show every week and over the years I've heard probably several hundred of these bands and they're all killers. Back in the day any one of these players would have had a shot at making it IF they were the first ones to create that sound and those licks.
The problem is they're not the first ones. They're like all the rest of us growing up listening to the original artists so we all sound just like them. that's true for me on keys and it's true for all you guitar pickers. That's ok for cover band gigs, but that's it.
Multiply this by 99 thousand/million/GAZILLION cover band players all over the world and that's the reason nobody is making any money.
It's supply and demand. A person would have problems getting five plumbers to drive 200 miles but there's no problem at all getting oh lets say 20 decent bands to do it. And, I would be willing to bet there are more than 20 good bands within 200 miles in a rural area, it's probably 100 or so. Here in SoCal I would not be surprised if that number is more like 10,000. I'm not kidding, I mean 10,000. 200 miles encompases LA, Riverside, Orange, San Diego, San Bernadino, etc. Probably 20 million people or so and I swear sometimes I think half of them are musicians.
Bob
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"I'm pretty sure that beer, shots, gas, and gear prices have all inflated at the exact same rate as pay for band members."
-Tsar Kasim
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Pay was bad 30 years ago and it's beyond bad now.
It's supply and demand. A person would have problems getting five plumbers to drive 200 miles but there's no problem at all getting oh lets say 20 decent bands to do it. And, I would be willing to bet there are more than 20 good bands within 200 miles in a rural area, it's probably 100 or so. Here in SoCal I would not be surprised if that number is more like 10,000. I'm not kidding, I mean 10,000. 200 miles encompases LA, Riverside, Orange, San Diego, San Bernadino, etc. Probably 20 million people or so and I swear sometimes I think half of them are musicians.
Bob When you factor that NYC, Atlanta, Nashville, Chicago, and most other major cities are all similar...... well, you know the rest of the story. And it's that way out here in the flyover states too. As long as the number of hopeful bands in inversely proportional to the number of available gigs, it will remain this way.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Not to mention the adverse affect the rising popularity that DJ's have had on the industry.
(Why pay for four when you can pay for one?)
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I do have to say I hear a lot of rationalization for why you can't make money playing out live.
I know of several bands local to me, and I'm not in some big metro area, that do decent.
One band specifically pulls in well over 100k a month. They do some really creative things to make that. Things most bands don't do. That's why they make what most bands never do.
Of course, there are many other bands that don't share their initiative and don't have those financial rewards. They may not be looking for that though.
I think it comes down to goals, a plan, noticing if it's working, and change what isn't.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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The first paying gig I ever had was 1972, I made $30. Last gig was maybe five years ago as a favour to a friend, his regular guitarist couldn't make the gig, and I made $50 and three beers.
When I played on a regular basis back in the mid 90's (not full time, just Friday and Saturday nights) the band would average around $250 a night, three sets. Five guys in the band, $50 each.
My friend that I did the favour for makes his living with music, but most of the money he makes is outside his band. He plays with his blues band maybe twice a week, but in between he is booked solid doing a solo act playing retirement residences, that sort of thing.
Last edited by BlueAttitude; 03/15/17 03:52 AM.
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I do have to say I hear a lot of rationalization for why you can't make money playing out live.
I know of several bands local to me, and I'm not in some big metro area, that do decent.
One band specifically pulls in well over 100k a month. They do some really creative things to make that. Things most bands don't do. That's why they make what most bands never do.
Of course, there are many other bands that don't share their initiative and don't have those financial rewards. They may not be looking for that though.
I think it comes down to goals, a plan, noticing if it's working, and change what isn't.
What is the name of that 100K/month band?
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I do have to say I hear a lot of rationalization for why you can't make money playing out live.
I know of several bands local to me, and I'm not in some big metro area, that do decent.
One band specifically pulls in well over 100k a month. They do some really creative things to make that. Things most bands don't do. That's why they make what most bands never do.
Of course, there are many other bands that don't share their initiative and don't have those financial rewards. They may not be looking for that though.
I think it comes down to goals, a plan, noticing if it's working, and change what isn't.
What is the name of that 100K/month band? I was wondering the same thing. Perhaps local to where you're at but with a record deal and on some major tours selling merchandise at the shows. Well over $100k a month is not a local band. That's a band with national reach, radio play, and some big names and credits. That's over $25k a week. They are not gigging at the local watering hole. If you live in Nashville, I'm sure there's a few bands that make $1.2 million a year. Your average "local" band is lucky to gross $40k a year.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Bands around here are playing for the same amount as I made back in the 60's. In a ten mile radius from my home town back then there were about 10 bars that had bands very Friday and Saturday night. Now there isn't a single bar that has bands. Plus wedding bands were put out of business by DJs.
It is sad because kids today have no place to play and learn music. Even High Schools have gone to DJs. I still can't dance because I played at every High School dance at not only my school but most schools around the area.
It's a very sad scene today for musicians that want to play out.
I get most of my exercise these days from shaking my head in disbelief.
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The name of the band is Vic Ferrari.
They are by NO means a national band.
They are a COVER band. They don't "tour" because, they don't have original music from what I know. They play almost exclusively covers...I'm trying to think if I have ever heard an original by them, and don't think I have. They plan some trips where they are the band that plays, and "party with their fans." They travel within a six hour drive AT MOST (I believe), except for their trips. The majority of their bookings are within the state. Most of that NOT in big cities!
They don't have radio play.
They do sell some merchandise, but I wouldn't guess it to be that much.
Most of their bookings are for village/town/city festival type of work.
It's HOW they go about doing what they do that makes them that amount of money. I could explain further, but think it's a disservice to the thread.
It's also the type of conversation I prefer to have via an actual conversation verses typing it here for the world to disagree with. If anyone is really THAT interested in what they do, PM me with your number and I will walk you through it. It's not complicated, but it is brilliant. So not to be TOO vague, I will say they get a cut of EVERYTHING they are involved with.
Also, to be clear, that's not 100k per player per month! I don't think anyone was thinking that, but don't want to wonder if I'm misunderstood.
I only posted this to show it IS possible to make money playing in bands. Most people don't make much, but don't do what it takes to make it either...so they tell themselves it can't be done. That's a narrow view of the world.
Last edited by HearToLearn; 03/15/17 06:06 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I should probably add that if you decide to "check them out" you probably won't see what makes them their money. Most people would (guessing) focus on how well they perform or don't for that matter. It's not about that 
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I should probably add that if you decide to "check them out" you probably won't see what makes them their money. Most people would (guessing) focus on how well they perform or don't for that matter. It's not about that Are they selling drugs? 
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Are they selling drugs? Who's asking? 
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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