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Mixing: Using a Reference Track
Most folks would benefit from using a reference track to guide their own mix.
For the uninitiated, a reference track is an existing (pro) song that you use as a comparison to your own mix.
Begin by selecting a song with a similar sound to what you intend to create.
Try to find something as close to the tempo (bpm) of what you are mixing as possible.
Rip a copy from a favorite CD or download a copy from iTunes or Amazon (or wherever).
Add that as a track in your mix.
Needless to say, keep the reference track MUTED as you mix your tracks.
On a regular basis, SOLO the reference track. And see how your mix compares.
Do small segments.
Your DAW should allow you to SOLO the reference track then unsolo to a MUTED state to give a back-and-forth, so you are listen to either your mix or the reference track.
When you are listening to the chorus of your song, shift your reference track so the chorus of it lines up with yours.
Things to pay attention to...
Your Vocal.
Does it fit in your mix the way the vocal in the pro song does?
If you have never done this, you will likely be surprised at how "dull" the pro vocal sounds compared to what you are doing with your own.
Most hobbyist have a tendency to make their vocal too bright - and a bit harsh because of it - because they are focusing on only the vocal and trying to get it "above the mix"...and jacking up the high EQ is the only thing they can think to do.
Most people would benefit from rolling off the really high end and finding other ways to get the vocal in the right place. A bit more compression? of an EQ bump at 1k? A duplicated track with no effects?
Generally there should be a "warmth" to a vocal, but not be "muddy".
It is a balancing act - and the reason there are so many videos about vocal processing.
Drums.
Does your drum levels match your reference track? (Most people mix their drums too low).
Generally, drums should be at a volume level similar to the vocal.
Piano.
Like drums, most people mix their pianos too low. And typically, they are not bright enough.
The BIAB pianos seem to be EQ'd well for a solo piano/vocal mix, but are too "dark" or "heavy" for a big mix, so your mix will get a little "muddy in the middle".
Try dropping out the EQ in the low end and adding a shelf on the high side starting around 2k - then bump that up 3-6 dB...
And make it loud enough to easily hear it.
The piano is a percussive instrument (meaning, like a drum, you "hit" it). If you want pads, use an electric piano or strings or a synth...don't mix your acoustic piano like a pad...
Acoustic guitars.
A lot of people make acoustic guitars too loud in a full mix. They should be "subtle", often "just there" or even "subliminal". Depends on the song, of course, but many people don't pay attention to when they should be more "under the mix".
This likely comes from the fact that acoustic guitar is what they play and what they write with and are accustomed to hearing it all the time.
Harmonies.
Do they sit right for the style of song? Some should be really blended in the background - similar to pads. Some should be like a duet.
Check it against the harmonies in your reference track.
Bass.
Listen to your reference track concentrating on hearing the bass.
Can you hear yours the same way?
That is typically another balancing act between volume and the right EQ.
If you turn your bass up and it makes your mix muddy (heavy bottom) look at your EQ to fix that.
The Chorus.
Does your chorus have the impact that the pro chorus does? If not, think about why. The likely answer is that you do not have enough "helping instruments" to accomplish that sound.
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Excellent. I am getting ready to post something related...
Synchroncity!
Wait. Is that a good song title? Or should I go with "Every Little Thing She Does is Magic?"
Hmmmmmmm.
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Most hobbyist have a tendency to make their vocal too bright - and a bit harsh because of it - because they are focusing on only the vocal and trying to get it "above the mix"...and jacking up the high EQ is the only thing they can think to do. Guilty as charged! Each time I start on a mix, I intend to use a reference. Then I get deep into the mix, figure it's "good enough", get tired of tweaking it, and send it out the door. Then I listen to the mix some time later and wonder "That the hell was I thinking!", and promise myself that next time I'll use a reference. Lather, rinse, repeat. 
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Great info. And it’s reflected in your mixes. Your suggestions regarding the gain on pianos and drums alone has been a game changer for us. I’m fairly consistent on using a reference when mastering—often letting Ozone match my reference and then tweaking. But I’m a slackard when it comes to mixing with a reference. Thanks for the kick in the butt  Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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I learned the hard way to start with bass, drums and vocals and gradually bring other stuff in around them as ornaments.
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I learned the hard way to start with bass, drums and vocals and gradually bring other stuff in around them as ornaments.
That's the way most producing is done, when you listen to some music, you hear a good strong sound on the vocals bass and drums, and not a lot of anything else and its a big hit.
The beat counts.
Last edited by beatmaster; 06/23/18 01:12 PM.
win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
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I was shocked when I recently re-listened to Carolina in My Mind by James Taylor and realized it is mostly bass and drums and very faint guitar. In my memory it was all guitar. Guess my memory was off!
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I was shocked when I recently re-listened to Carolina in My Mind by James Taylor and realized it is mostly bass and drums and very faint guitar. In my memory it was all guitar. Guess my memory was off! Not necessarily. If the last time you listened to the song it was on a compact diskette, you're not listening to the original mix but to a mix remixed and remastered for distribution on a cd. Also, much depends on when it was transferred to cd. Many reissue cds from 1985 to 2000 the mix and mastering engineers did not have a good grasp of the medium and how to best use the medium. In many cases they did not even have the original master tapes as source material.
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Let's keep to topic, okay?
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Dear Floyd, I think we are on topic. I was using exactly what you are talking about to mix an acoustic song using Carolina in my Mind as a reference. I was surprised to hear how faint the guitar was as opposed to my memory. And how loud and well mixed the bass and drums were: to your points. So my response was to validate what you said. Mixing: Using a Reference Track
Most folks would benefit from using a reference track to guide their own mix.
For the uninitiated, a reference track is an existing (pro) song that you use as a comparison to your own mix.
Begin by selecting a song with a similar sound to what you intend to create.
Try to find something as close to the tempo (bpm) of what you are mixing as possible.
Rip a copy from a favorite CD or download a copy from iTunes or Amazon (or wherever).
Add that as a track in your mix.
Needless to say, keep the reference track MUTED as you mix your tracks.
On a regular basis, SOLO the reference track. And see how your mix compares.
Do small segments.
Your DAW should allow you to SOLO the reference track then unsolo to a MUTED state to give a back-and-forth, so you are listen to either your mix or the reference track.
When you are listening to the chorus of your song, shift your reference track so the chorus of it lines up with yours.
Things to pay attention to...
Your Vocal.
Does it fit in your mix the way the vocal in the pro song does?
If you have never done this, you will likely be surprised at how "dull" the pro vocal sounds compared to what you are doing with your own.
Most hobbyist have a tendency to make their vocal too bright - and a bit harsh because of it - because they are focusing on only the vocal and trying to get it "above the mix"...and jacking up the high EQ is the only thing they can think to do.
Most people would benefit from rolling off the really high end and finding other ways to get the vocal in the right place. A bit more compression? of an EQ bump at 1k? A duplicated track with no effects?
Generally there should be a "warmth" to a vocal, but not be "muddy".
It is a balancing act - and the reason there are so many videos about vocal processing.
Drums.
Does your drum levels match your reference track? (Most people mix their drums too low).
Generally, drums should be at a volume level similar to the vocal.
Piano.
Like drums, most people mix their pianos too low. And typically, they are not bright enough.
The BIAB pianos seem to be EQ'd well for a solo piano/vocal mix, but are too "dark" or "heavy" for a big mix, so your mix will get a little "muddy in the middle".
Try dropping out the EQ in the low end and adding a shelf on the high side starting around 2k - then bump that up 3-6 dB...
And make it loud enough to easily hear it.
The piano is a percussive instrument (meaning, like a drum, you "hit" it). If you want pads, use an electric piano or strings or a synth...don't mix your acoustic piano like a pad...
Acoustic guitars.
A lot of people make acoustic guitars too loud in a full mix. They should be "subtle", often "just there" or even "subliminal". Depends on the song, of course, but many people don't pay attention to when they should be more "under the mix".
This likely comes from the fact that acoustic guitar is what they play and what they write with and are accustomed to hearing it all the time.
Harmonies.
Do they sit right for the style of song? Some should be really blended in the background - similar to pads. Some should be like a duet.
Check it against the harmonies in your reference track.
Bass.
Listen to your reference track concentrating on hearing the bass.
Can you hear yours the same way?
That is typically another balancing act between volume and the right EQ.
If you turn your bass up and it makes your mix muddy (heavy bottom) look at your EQ to fix that.
The Chorus.
Does your chorus have the impact that the pro chorus does? If not, think about why. The likely answer is that you do not have enough "helping instruments" to accomplish that sound.
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Great tips FJ! Thank you for posting these.
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Dear Floyd,
I think we are on topic.
I was using exactly what you are talking about to mix an acoustic song using Carolina in my Mind as a reference.
I was surprised to hear how faint the guitar was as opposed to my memory.
And how loud and well mixed the bass and drums were: to your points.
So my response was to validate what you said.
Indeed. Responses to your observation looked as though they might take off in another direction (as things have a tendency to do around here...) I just wanted to make sure we stayed on the USING A REFERNCE TRACK track. (track track) (track track) (track track)
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Yes using a suitable reference track can be very useful. I just wanted to add that most commercial reference tracks will be very loud having been mastered to make the most impact. It is very important that when you make your comparisons between your own mix and the sound of the reference track to make sure they are at similar sound volumes. In other words turn down the reference track to the level of your mix. The human ear tends to favour a loud mix and think it sounds better when it is just louder.
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Floyd, I agree. Let's stay on track. And what are all these people doing saying they can write like Adele and then won't tell me what midi channel to put my pan flute on because I think Led Zeppelin is the greatest band that ever was and nobody else deserves to live and PG Music better get its act together soon I tell ya. NOW--we are on track!!!  Where do I find the delete button....wait..hold on....
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Good info.
To use a reference track properly, one must of course, understand the principles behind the mixing. Proper use of reverb, compression, EQ, etc.... for example, what happens in the sonic landscape to a solo track when you change the shelving on the EQ of a vocal or guitar and how that reacts in the bigger picture of the total mix.
One must also know what they are listening for, notice when something is being done, know and understand exactly what that something is, and understand and know how that particular sound is achieved. ( ex: what specific knobs to turn, what levels to change, why, and by how much)
In other words, it's not as easy as A/B the track with your mix. One must learn to listen.... and this is a topic that could really go off on lots of rabbit trails because speakers, rooms, headphones, and so many other factors play into that single topic of listening.
You can't fix what you don't hear.... no matter what the cause.
In all fairness though, you did provide some good information on each of the points you discussed.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 06/28/18 02:56 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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One other thing, obvious to some, but maybe not to others.
When using a reference track, it's important to make sure to not have the effects on your song affect the reference. Otherwise it is futile. So if you import the reference track to your project, make sure that track is not altered by the main out effects.
You want that one to sound as original sounding as possible.
Like I said, pretty obvious, but something to check.
I've been caught by things like this that appeared obvious afterwards.
Doubt I'm alone here.
Last edited by rharv; 06/28/18 01:27 PM.
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Make your sound your own!
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prolly common sense but you would want to bring in your ref track in a lossless format such as WAV and not a ripped MP3, right?
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I'm going to start doing this more often with the whole mix.
When mixing my own voice/vocal I often use a reference vocalist. Is that too far off topic?
It's usually Alan Jackson or Ronnie Dunn for my lower and mid registers and Phil Vassar for my higher register. I'm not saying I sound like either of them but I try to eq and compress my voice to be similar because I sing a lot of country now. I simply bounce back and forth between various songs of theirs on youtube and my own track. I don't think it comes out like theirs in the end but I think it helps me to not sound too cold or thin.
I also try to imitate what "I imagine" they are doing during recording as far as mic technique and expression, controlling siblance, pops, breath, distance, movement and things like that.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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prolly common sense but you would want to bring in your ref track in a lossless format such as WAV and not a ripped MP3, right? A high quality mp3 (320 - or even 256) should work - but use whatever you've got - the better quality...the better - obviously (but not necessarily necessary) (I seem to be double-wording a lot in this thread). The point to a Reference Track is more about getting things to sit right in a mix - the vocal in particular...without being cold and harsh - but also all the instrument. I've pointed out drums, bass, piano, acoustic guitars because many people put one or more of those "in the wrong place". An 256 mp3 can give you the reference one might need...
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I'm going to start doing this more often with the whole mix.
When mixing my own voice/vocal I often use a reference vocalist. Is that too far off topic?
It's usually Alan Jackson or Ronnie Dunn for my lower and mid registers and Phil Vassar for my higher register. I'm not saying I sound like either of them but I try to eq and compress my voice to be similar because I sing a lot of country now. I simply bounce back and forth between various songs of theirs on youtube and my own track. I don't think it comes out like theirs in the end but I think it helps me to not sound too cold or thin.
I also try to imitate what "I imagine" they are doing during recording as far as mic technique and expression, controlling siblance, pops, breath, distance, movement and things like that. This is perfectly "on topic" I love your list of vocal references! All excellent choices. (Phil was friends with a friend of mine - saw him at the Bluebird a couple of times. A really nice guy.)
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These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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