When PG book the Artiste in the first place surely they give them a list of chords and riffs that they want them to play?it cant just be random.Are the Records kept if so can they be publushed?Or am I being too simplistic. Wendy
BiaB2022PLUS,927. every extras pack I can find ;-),Sonar7XL,Win 10
This is the question I asked several years ago when UserTracks became available. I would guess that there is a BIAB song for the artists to play along with, and it would have most or all of the chord types.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
The Artist Performance Sets have the SGU that you open and see what is being played over what chords. That's all the RT's need an SGU in with the RT files:
I set Realband Song Settings to Avoid Transpositions in RealTracks. Generate up a chord in a key for a few bars then drag export a bar or section that is a continuous riff, now drag that in a DAW and drag the RT same Key file then match the waveform to create the chord progression for the RT file. The only problem is it would be using chord substitutions so that section could be used on other chords...not to mention it is a time consuming task ! I'm getting a bit worn out these days always trying to find workaround solutions for PG apps !!! "FRUSTRATION" no other program has done this to me more so than PG's lol I have stuck with it for the end results but getting there can be a real pain that need not be with better programming, coming up to date with things and aiming higher.
EDIT: Having the SGU's with the audio would allow users to create up tracks manually choosing the sections you need where, giving more control rather than the dice. In Biab or RealBand you just highlight that section in the chord sheet then drag export to your DAW creating it just how you like.
Pipeline, I totally get what you're saying but you are far, far from the average user of Biab.
Again for the gazillion'th time, BIAB IS NOT A FULL BLOWN STUDIO PRODUCTION DAW. Could it be? Sure. And if my aunt had...
You know who primarily uses it but here it is again. A user (or student, don't forget the teaching angle) who doesn't even have to play an instrument and barely understands song forms enters some chords into the chord grid and hits Play. They get a decent sounding song. It's amazing! It's so easy to use! Other users go up in knowledge from there but not to the level of studio production. Only a few take it that far. They can go deep into the innards and make it do more and yes, it could be easier at that level but is it worth all the extra programming time considering who the typical user seems to be?
"I don't know, ask Peter." isn't that what the post is doing ?
Was it worth the time and effort I spent asking for vst sync ??????? or should I have not bothered as music students and typical users don't need that ???? I remember someone telling me that they won't have vst sync but then they were shocked when vst sync was implemented. You can pontificate or you can actually come up with ideas and improvements to help.
VST sync was a big one for me as well I also pounded for that because I loved using Jamstix still like it, but must admit I like using real drums a bit more these days
Over the years I have argued back with those who screamed for BiaB to be rewritten to become a full recording studio DAW that to me is downright ridiculous. That takes away its main purpose. I see the VSTi plugin in time accomplishing that I really believe that this plugin will bring many more people to BiaB that would never have tried it.
I opened it this morning and chose a style over 32 bars and it was taking 10 seconds to generate each track and both of the opening and closing processes. On a 32 bar with 3 choruses the generation time we’re 28 seconds per part or 3:28 not bad. If only the audio issue and the multiriff issue were fixed we would have a good solid start. The next patch is scheduled for Monday if all goes well. I’m sure it will address many things in BiaB proper as well.
Next after that make it so we can swap out real tracks in the plugin to try variations and create new track beds and that would really be powerful
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
If I was on the fence on this, I'd come down on the side of jazzmammal's Aunt!
We heard from quite a number of people over the last few years that wanted BIAB in 64 bit. But we have no idea of what percentage of users that was, only that they seemed to be the most vocal.
What if only (say) 10% of BIAB regular AND future customers required 64 bit? Then BIAB developers have spend a goodly portion of this year working to please only them, at the possible expense of other features (bar limit, chords per bar limit, time sig limits).
If I needed a program that would do all that Pipeline needs, I would simply go buy a different program. Let BIAB do what it was intended to do, as has been stated. It's just a tool to help make music. If you need a screwdriver, why try to get the makers of a hammer to do that job for you?
) Wendy: When PG book the Artiste in the first place surely they give them a list of chords and riffs that they want them to play?it cant just be random.Are the Records kept if so can they be publushed?Or am I being too simplistic.
We heard from quite a number of people over the last few years that wanted BIAB in 64 bit. But we have no idea of what percentage of users that was, only that they seemed to be the most vocal.
But we do know that the majority of software companies in the music industry understand that the world has now moved to 64-bit and they have updated their products accordingly.
Originally Posted By: Lloyd S
What if only (say) 10% of BIAB regular AND future customers required 64 bit? Then BIAB developers have spend a goodly portion of this year working to please only them, at the possible expense of other features (bar limit, chords per bar limit, time sig limits).
Well, Mac users know that very soon 100% of them will require 64-bit! And you can bet it won't be that long before Microsoft drops support for 32-bit too. So, yeah, you can go ahead and toss that buggy whip!
Originally Posted By: Lloyd S
If I needed a program that would do all that Pipeline needs, I would simply go buy a different program. Let BIAB do what it was intended to do, as has been stated. It's just a tool to help make music. If you need a screwdriver, why try to get the makers of a hammer to do that job for you?
Thank goodness we have folks like Pipeline who are willing to stir the pot and move people forward! I wish PGM would show that kind of vision!
UPDATE: let me just say that PGM have demonstrated tremendous vision and creativity and technological brilliance with their creation and production of RealTracks!!! My comment above was just regarding the delay of things like 64-bit and GUI modernization.
VST sync was a big one for me as well I also pounded for that because I loved using Jamstix still like it, but must admit I like using real drums a bit more these days......
This sounds great but consider this, file size, file size and file size. How many tracks are we talking here? 6? 8? 10? That means you're tripling or what octupling the file size? And, remember putting a mic on each drum for more control is fine but it's still not separate discrete drum parts, there will be tons of bleed through from the other drums. "Some" control does not mean perfect, clean control over each part of the kit.
Bob
2018
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
... As for the multitrack stems absolutely, that would be great if they can pull it off.... Bob
Originally Posted By: Lloyd S
If I was on the fence on this, I'd come down on the side of jazzmammal's Aunt!
We heard from quite a number of people over the last few years that wanted BIAB in 64 bit. But we have no idea of what percentage of users that was, only that they seemed to be the most vocal. What if only (say) 10% of BIAB regular AND future customers required 64 bit? Then BIAB developers have spend a goodly portion of this year working to please only them, at the possible expense of other features (bar limit, chords per bar limit, time sig limits)....... LLOYD S
100% of Mac user must have 64bit. You could always use REATRAK to get 8 chords per bar and any time signature until it's added in BB/BBvst, as it's due to the BBvst that will likely bring about this change as it needs to sync with the DAW time signature changes.
See how things change over the years because users come here with new ides, sure they get jumped on but the brave stay until the job is done and theres no going back...
If you have such a template song for jazz, to make User Tracks, I would be interested.
Yes exactly, having the SGU files in with the RealTrack files would solve this problem.
I started with a basic one here Good Ear Needed as this has the A B parts if that goes good we can try a jazz one. (though having the SGU's will be so much easier than this)
Originally Posted By: Pipeline
If someone wants to help out here with a good ear, there are 24 SGU for Guitar, Acoustic, Strumming AcRockBright Ev 120 make a backup copy of bb\RealTracks\Guitar, Acoustic, Strumming AcRockBright Ev 120 then just extract them to bb\RealTracks\Guitar, Acoustic, Strumming AcRockBright Ev 120 when you open them they will load the associated RealTrack file with it into the BB Audio track. They came straight out of the ACW as is. They just need chording out correctly and the key set.
Wendy's suggestion was received well enough for Peter Gannon to quote and add a positive comment.
Wendy's suggestion is
Originally Posted By: WendyM
When PG book the Artiste in the first place surely they give them a list of chords and riffs that they want them to play? It cant just be random. Are the Records kept if so can they be published or am I being too simplistic? Wendy
Peter Gannon's response:
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon
Wendy, That’s a good idea. Thanks.
There is nothing in Dr. Gannon's response to indicate if the idea will be implemented or, if the idea is implemented how it will be implemented.
My guess is Dr. Gannon is acknowledging the idea is a good idea but has not examined the idea in detail to determine what steps can be taken to implement the idea so he has no idea of what degree of work is needed or what form the idea might take.
The idea of a SGU file with a chord chart of all chords used in a RealTrack is one method of addressing the issue however the same information could be provided in a much smaller text file.
It might be more difficult to document what chords are in a RealTrack than we think. For example the musician may record many hours of audio which is then divided into multiple RealTracks. The musician may not stringently follow a chord chart through out the audio recording but instead given some leeway to record as inspiration hits while following a loose guideline like "We want a set of ChaCha tracks in 25 BPM increments that can be used from 80 BPM to 180 BPM".
We users really don't know enough about how RealTracks are created to determine what is the best way to address the concern. I feel my original concern has been acknowledged. Now I can wait and see if the issue is addressed.
The idea of a SGU file with a chord chart of all chords used in a RealTrack is one method of addressing the issue however the same information could be provided in a much smaller text file.
I just provided some examples of how it might be addressed. I don't know how, or if it will be.
I suspect what chords are played in each RealTracks audio file is known. The Band-in-a-Box and RealBand programs HAVE to know where to go in an audio file to extract the desired chord. I suspect the information is contained in the bt1 & bt2 files that accompany each audio file.
I'm hoping PG Music decides they can create a utility program that converts bt1 data to text data. Then they can save the converted text data as a text file or import the data as chords into a SGU file. Finally create another program to copy all the text or SGU files into the correct RealTracks folders.
Once the process is complete the copy program and new files can be combined into an installation file and published. That would take care of all RealTracks released to date. Future RealTracks can have these files added to the correct folders as part of the RealTracks creation process.
That's an outline of what I would like to happen. Who knows if it will or can happen.
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