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Matt
More for mixing, mastering but I use this for sound quality on my cd player, mp3 and wav from pc, listening to all music in general.
Matt
So I have to wonder, what are these DAC units doing, especially when they sound different from each other, and is that a good thing? I don't think so.
The dac units are not a new concept you have a dac chip in all cd players etc, or there would be no sound coming from the cd separate player to amp.
The individual dac units have more capability to give a better quality sound than most of the stock dac chips added to cd players etc.
Just like amps , speakers and cd decks , tape decks, sound bars, ipods etc, they all have a unique sound it would be a stagnant world for music if they all sounded the same.
win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Because all systems don’t sound the same (which is fine), one must mix and master on a system as flat or realistic as possible, with no ‘enhancement’. Then you or others can listen on anything you want and it should sound ok.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Matt,
Being a 'math guy' I hope this makes sense to you.
It pushes my boundaries (grin)
DACs often have internal clocks/methods that can handle any jitters in time code better.
This is just one aspect where 'enhancement' isn't needed, just accuracy.
Some DAC units may discard info, some may adjust the info, some may do nothing in this regard, but there is always an AD/DA conversion taking place when using digital audio.
Where/when that happens and using which equipment to do so always makes a difference.
That's the only way I could explain the difference using science (or math) with my meager understanding.
Some sound cards use their own clocks to handle this jitter, some use the system clock, but many DACs excel at the actual reading of the audio data to real time conversion either way, so the audio signal that gets sent to the monitors (or computer) is not as jittery (is that even a word?).
I'm not really qualified to explain 'how' it happens, but I know I can hear it. The above info simply explains how *I* have come to think of it.
So even on a perfectly flat system it can still sound better, yet still be true.
No citation comes to mind offhand, so take with a grain of salt.
Last edited by rharv; 09/07/18 01:33 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks, Bob. Yes, I’m familiar with jitter, can hear it, and do experience problems from it when I take my computer’s scratch tracks into a studio. But some sound cards have or support word clocks and are rock-solid on spec with no jitter. I agree, if a stand-alone DAC can overcome this, that’s great.
The OP is making claims about better sound. I hope that’s true and I would love to hear why. I doubt many people could hear the difference in jitter between a DAC and a typical sound card, and even if they can, it’s not in the category of stereo widening or some sort of tonal enhancement (or whatever the enhancement actually is).
Sorry, not yet convinced this is a good thing for mixing and mastering except for less jitter if in fact that’s the case.
Again, it reminds me of an old SoundBlaster running that horrid EAX, or the dubious claims made about BBE hardware. I do hope I’m wrong.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I read all this and it is interesting but I ask for the average person what is the advantage. In my case with the level of tinnitus blasting away and most folk I play to having issues with hearing aids I question the need for 100% clarity or accuracy. Years ago I read an article that suggested most people’s hearing distorts or reduces what we are capable of hearing.
I question the need for a $2000+ device to really bring sound back as close as we can to the original. If recording into the box are you not constrained by the analog to digital converter or does the dac work both ways (in and out).
Just some thoughts
Tony
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Because all systems don’t sound the same (which is fine), one must mix and master on a system as flat or realistic as possible, with no ‘enhancement’. Then you or others can listen on anything you want and it should sound ok. Spot on. When Quincy Jones produced Thriller, the studio had the best sound system the world could offer. Quincy said "now play it back on a pair of small speakers". When asked why, he stated that it had to sound good on them also. This was what most people would be listening with.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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When Quincy Jones produced Thriller, the studio had the best sound system the world could offer. Quincy said "now play it back on a pair of small speakers". When asked why, he stated that it had to sound good on them also. This was what most people would be listening with. True, but the lower frequencies you can only check on a better class speaker set ... I really liked my Soundblaster Audigy ZS2 with all the extras it had via the connected break out box. Headphones, SPDIF. Alas it had the old PCI slot connection, and of which my new ASUS board has none. It has 64bit windows drivers, only you cannot use the internal software and hardware chips for Soundblaster FX processing anymore, which i never did anyway, but the very good internal GM sounds and eventual soundfont import possibilities makes it a worthwhile system setup too for a stand alone dekstop PC. Far better than all the current mainboard Realtek HD audio chips everybody switches off in BIAS if they're serious about audio quality from a PC. -- My Soundblaster ZS2 set is still for sale BTW, as i was forced to change horses. A difference you'll notice if the whole system is driven by a decent master wordclock like my RME UFX provides. I noticed that after a change to a Yamaha 01v96i USB audio interface using it's own wordclock. The yamaha desk wordclock sync slaved to an RME sounded quite better. Good testers for digital sound quality are decent piano recordings or cymbals. -F
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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So there is no good hi fi and no bad hi fi sounds, we are pretty much approaching an era when there will be no hi fi period.
I remember my first hi fi with a cd player I went to a record shop after receiving it that morning and I had 6 cd discs to choose from.
I cannot remember the artist or titles, but I choose Graceland Paul Simon.
I remember going home and being astounded by the sound after years of records and tapes.
Arrived the Philips dac TDA1541A chip, it was in a lot of cd player after a while, my point is I now am hearing music again like I did then, how, why, where and when, I could not tell you in too much detail as even my wife who does not really listen to music much noticed/heard the difference.
Amazed that forum members on here have a doubt, about this as I always assumed that music would be as one lecturer said to me .. in the blood..?.
Video track you mentioned about the Quincy Jones produced Thriller,
Yes he listened on small speakers for the results, but he still used and had the top of the range sound system available .. Mmmm womder why that was !!.
Last edited by beatmaster; 09/07/18 09:09 PM.
win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
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Just to add I was working on a new song and adding vocals as I was monitoring on my Headphones.
I heard the real tracks with more body and feel, as though the guitar was next to me and not a distance away.
That made me sing more openly and get a feel for the recording that I have never had when recording , like a live feel, a gig etc.
All I am saying it works for me and I am just giving feed back.
win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Now there’s a good reason: the sound quality inspires you so you sing better. Absolutely.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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