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Just bought an audio dac, on reading up on this it states best results using Flac or wav so I was just wondering if I will get any benefit using it through the pc to enhance the sound of Real tracks etc.
And well it lead me to the question about the format we play and hear in biab ?.
P.S. Hope this is posted in the right place.
win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
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FLAC uses compression but is supposed to be lossless. WAV files are uncompressed.
Your signature says you use a PC. Your BIAB therefore is either the audiophile version that uses WAV files of CD quality, or you have one of the ‘regular’ versions that uses WMA files. For a description of the difference, read my sticky post in the Tips and Tricks Forum.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Matt
Thanks very much, that answers it all for me.
I am right on saying, when I render for my daw it is then wav ?.
Last edited by beatmaster; 08/21/18 06:24 PM.
win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
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Beatmaster,
Yes, when rendered, BIAB tracks are rendered as wav. The wav is created by converting wma files. This conversion does not enhance the audio quality, it simply changes its format.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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That's great Noel thanks, wav is supposed to be when an audio dac shines.
Hopefully.
win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
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DACs do a fine job with FLAC and WAV but the shine will depend on the content of the file. You can convert a 192MP3 to wav & it will still sounds like a 192 MP3.
A little research related..
"WMA stands for Windows Media Audio. It was first released in 1999 and has gone through several evolutions since then, all while keeping the same WMA name and extension. As you might expect, it’s a proprietary format created by Microsoft.
Not unlike AAC and OGG, WMA was meant to address some of the flaws in the MP3 compression method — and as such, WMA’s approach to compression is pretty similar to AAC and OGG. In other words, in terms of objective quality, WMA is better than MP3 .It also doesn’t offer any real benefits over AAC or OGG..."
BUT>>>>
"WMA stands for Windows Media Audio. We covered it above in the lossy compression section, but we mention it here because there’s a lossless alternative called WMA Lossless that uses the same extension. Confusing, I know.
Compared to FLAC and ALAC, WMA Lossless is the worst in terms of compression efficiency but only slightly. It’s a proprietary format so it’s no good for fans of open source software, but it is supported natively on both Windows and Mac systems.
The biggest issue with WMA Lossless is the limited hardware support. If you want lossless audio across multiple devices, you should stick with FLAC unless all of your devices are of the Windows variety."
I don't know if BIAB uses WMA Lossless. I've spent some time searching but there's no reference to WMA Lossless except as a rendering option.
Cheers
rayc
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Hi rayc
Thanks for posting, I have had a wee bit of time to get used to the dac and experiment, it is absolutely unbelievable on cd discs played through my arcam cd player.
The flac, mp3, and cd discs ripped to the pc and played through the pc to the audio dac, have a lot more presence and body to the music that I always remember getting from a good stack hi fi.
I am enjoying it, best thing I have bought in a long time to enhance my music, even going through the songs posted on the user showcase, doing an a to b comparison with a flick of a switch on the amp you hear a Big difference.
Last edited by beatmaster; 08/25/18 01:37 AM.
win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
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Can we drop back a moment and make sure we are saying the same thing? What did you buy when you say audio dac? Digital to analog converter? Anything that plays digital files converts them to analog that you can hear.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Matt No problem yes your pc has a dac, cd player has a dac, etc. But these are high class superior dacs. Here is what I bought hope this helps https://www.richersounds.com/camb-dacmagic-plus-b.html
win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
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Thanks. I looked at that and read reviews. Aside from it doing enhanced stereo separation, I’m at a loss to understand technically how upsampling improves sound. I guess I’ll have to hear it.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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you should do that, I have listened to my fav cd discs for years.
And all been on good stack hi fi systems, I now hear instruments that I never heard on my so called top of the range systems I bought then.
win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
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I'm a bit at a loss here. I run all my PC's sound through my MOTU 828MK3 audio interface. If I understand all of this correctly, the 828 would then handle all of the DAC...is this correct? Would the Cambridge unit be that much better?
Jeff
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2026, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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Yes you are correct Jeff. The MOTU handles all of the DAC functions and is probably just as good as the Cambridge ones. However for anyone used to listening to audio from compressed format audio sources through a PC's built in soundcard I would think that it would be a revelation. 
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Yes you are correct Jeff. The MOTU handles all of the DAC functions and is probably just as good as the Cambridge ones. Good as Cambridge ..You are wrong. However for anyone used to listening to audio from compressed format audio sources through a PC's built in soundcard I would think that it would be a revelation. I have already stated that I own, and always have owned a good high end hi fi, so used to a high quality sound. More info here https://www.whathifi.com/advice/dacs-everything-you-need-to-know
Last edited by beatmaster; 08/26/18 12:32 AM.
win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
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To kind of back up Beatmaster, I went to Axpona last year and learned a lot about DACs. Prism also makes some fine DACs if you have the money ($2500+). Expensive, but hearing a collection of familiar songs go from a notebook through that DAC and into nothing more than self powered 2 way monitors convinced me there was some kind of magic to it. http://www.prismsound.com/hifi/products_subs/dac1/dac1_home.php http://www.prismsound.com/hifi/reviews.php We have 3 DACs at work and they all sound better than any sound card I've heard to date.
Last edited by rharv; 08/26/18 01:28 AM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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The first part of my reply was directed to Jeff's question. And I did say probably but it would be very difficult to prove either way IMHO. The second part was a general reply to others reading this thread and wondering what DACs were all about. It was not directed to you. 
Last edited by ryclark; 08/27/18 12:30 AM.
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ryclark
No problem I just did not want anyone reading the post thinking an audio dac would not improve pc sound, They are all equipped with usb connection now.
win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
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A decent DAC will blow away most sound cards any day.
I'm not a believer in "Upsampling" - to work as describes it'd have to use an enhancer or exciter to replace the missing information to make it sound better.
I suppose it could be a matter of the DAC adding some of the things we like to hear from tube amps etc - still a bit of smoke n mirrors.
I have a Cambridge Audio Topaz amp and it's excellent quality: build and sound.
Cheers
rayc
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rayc
A decent DAC will blow away most sound cards any day.
I'm not a believer in "Upsampling" - to work as describes it'd have to use an enhancer or exciter to replace the missing information to make it sound better.
Yes I believe it does have an enhancer, the different dac chip Sabre, Wolfson etc. enhance the sound with each having there own individual sound .
I have the arcam alpha 7 amp , it also is of a good quality sound and I was happy with the sound.
Then I got to wonder about the a dac and how it would be linked to the arcam, And I was amazed at the sound when I got one, night and day.
win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
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A decent DAC will blow away most sound cards any day.
I'm not a believer in "Upsampling" - to work as describes it'd have to use an enhancer or exciter to replace the missing information to make it sound better.
Yes I believe it does have an enhancer, the different dac chip Sabre, Wolfson etc. enhance the sound with each having there own individual sound .
This is getting more interesting. We are in agreement that upsampling makes no difference in the sound. First, stereo separation was mentioned. Yes, this would change the sound but can also be done in software (Ozone, for example). Now this last post mentions "enhancing the sound". So I have to wonder, what are these DAC units doing, especially when they sound different from each other, and is that a good thing? I don't think so. This reminds me of the old SoundBlaster cards. They had their own sound enhancement - I forget the exact term they used - and it was critical to turn that off if you wanted to make a good mix. For just listening, sure, enhance away and buy what sounds good to you. But I still don't understand why anyone would use this to mix or create music. What am I missing?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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