Hi here I am again ;-) Please change the default setting for Natural arrangement to NEVER
1)Options 2)Preferences 3)Arrange 4) Find roll down menu for Natural Arrangement
NEVER (as default)
So many jazz customers avoid buying BB as the rumor says that BB puts plain 9 chords on a dominant7 V chord or altered over a IV 7. I also believe that beginners can get trouble with this
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
Matt: Yes, but the default setting has been an overlooked feature that imho has degraded BB. I see bad comments about it on many forums, so I want to shine a light on it, so BB hopefully do something about it.
Matt: Yes, but the default setting has been an overlooked feature that imho has degraded BB. I see bad comments about it on many forums, so I want to shine a light on it, so BB hopefully do something about it.
Stratos, I agree there is an issue here. The comical post linked by Videotrack shows one example of this. Natural Arrangement is a fascinating concept and it often works very well, though it also can give odd results. I know: I compose Brazilian jazz. Every chord is ‘complex’ according to their definition (and then some). Natural Arrangement never gives unmusical results, just sometimes not exactly what I specified. I think that’s the way AI is supposed to work: it offers to ‘refine’ my entries, and I can override it.
So my issue here is not the main idea but how it is implemented. I’m not sure about just turning Natural Arrangement off by default, thus hiding a powerful feature from new users. Perhaps if the green info screen were then shown every regeneration (not just once per session as it is now), it would be available to all to try. Then make that green screen optional as users become more experienced. Would this work?
Or, another approach: have the green info message offer to ‘analyze’ the song for possible ‘enhancement’ via AI. Ideally, display the original chord and the possible suggested replacement, and let the user choose. Now, that’s powerful.
Remember that BIAB has a tremendous wealth of chords to choose from, but it’s not infinite. Natural Arrangement has never been completely explained, and it probably won’t be because it’s proprietary. But I believe it is at least partially based on knowledge of what chord progressions are available that are known to work well. My song’s chords might specify something for which the program has to substitute from what’s available (and that can improve over time). Or, I’m completely wrong on all of this.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Hi Matt I´ll try to make a comparison of normal arrangement and natural arrangement of the same tune to be sure if it makes a difference in a good or a bad way. I am aware that styles means something for the BB choice of chords. Cheers
As a mainly Jazz player, I need to know what it's going to do to my song before I can be comfortable with using it.
I would like to see a check-box or similar displayed on the chord sheet that I could use to toggle Natural Arrangement on/off. Then I could see exactly how it would change my structure and decide if I wish to use it.
(BTW: I normally write using just slightly more that a single C chord )
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
As a mainly Jazz player, I need to know what it's going to do to my song before I can be comfortable with using it.
I would like to see a check-box or similar displayed on the chord sheet that I could use to toggle Natural Arrangement on/off. Then I could see exactly how it would change my structure and decide if I wish to use it.
(BTW: I normally write using just slightly more that a single C chord )
+1 That was a very good suggestion. Sorry I didn´t see it out of your post Matt Cheers
I believe the issues with the "Natural Arrangement" feature are three fold, user expectation, feature implementation and undocumented chord changes.
The first issue is available by answering the question, "What does a user EXPECT to hear on playback once chords are entered on a Band-in-a-Box chord sheet and the play or regen and play button are pressed; chord improvisation (natural arrangement) or the entered chords?" My guess is users expect entered chords but the current default is chord improvisation (natural arrangement turned on).
The second issue is the focus of the green message is on song complexity, not changing the chord arrangement based on an analysis of the song. So the message is confusing at best and inaccurate or misleading at times.
The third issue is the chord sheet does not clearly indicate what chords are substituted, where the substituted chords were placed nor why those substitutions were made.
A on/off checkbox could help address the first issue but the second and third issues also needs addressing.
I like the idea of having a checkbox to easily turn the feature on and off. My proposal is to make the checkbox part of the regen and play button. Then during initial and subsequent song generations the check box will control operation of the natural arrangement feature as desired. Meanwhile the natural arrangement checkbox operation is ignored when the play button is pressed.
The second issue can be addressed by changing the green box message wording. A simple "natural arrangement is on" when the feature is used should be sufficient.
The third issue requires the most attention. Both the user manual and help file should be updated to provide a clear explanation of what the natural arrangement feature is and a non technical overview of how the features makes it's decisions. Finally, chord substitutions should be highlighted on both display and print chord sheets.
... Finally, chord substitutions should be highlighted on both display and print chord sheets.
All valid points Jim, and worthy of consideration.
I for one, want to see what it does to my arrangement and this could be best presented by highlighting on the chords that are displayed.
One item to challenge this option is that natural arrangements can be turned on/off per individual track from the mixer. So how would that be presented on the chord sheet.
Also, two different guitar tracks could have different chords if only one used natural arrangements.
It's been asked many times that we would like to know more about what this feature actually does to our songs.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
I didn't realize each track has settings so natural arrangement can be enabled or disabled. Amazing. This opens the door to a lot of arrangement possibilities.
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