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Joined: Apr 2007
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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If you know what tempo changes you might require in a song then you can make them in BIAB standalone. For instance you might have verses at one tempo and chorus slightly faster then back to normal verse tempo and maybe a different tempo for the bridge. Maybe you might want a gradual slow at the end you can do all this in bar settings. Once you have all the tempos as you would like them you can export the song as a midifile into your DAW. This song will include all the correct tempo changes. Now when you export your RealTracks or RealDrums from BIAB to your newly created DAW song they should all line up perfectly with the tempos.
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Joined: May 2000
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PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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> But, the truth is, it will show up dumb as a rock, not know the songs, the key, tempo or chord progression.... You have to tell it everything.
The Audio Chord Wizard (available in BIAB and RB) figures out tempos, chords and key from audio without you telling it anything.
Have Fun! Peter Gannon PG Music Inc.
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> But, the truth is, it will show up dumb as a rock, not know the songs, the key, tempo or chord progression.... You have to tell it everything.
The Audio Chord Wizard (available in BIAB and RB) figures out tempos, chords and key from audio without you telling it anything. Not to argue with the owner of the company but I don't feel I can leave you thinking I was dissing the program. Not the case at all. You missed the context of my remark. I was discussing the poster's work flow bringing BIAB tracks into his DAW. In that context, I had compared BIAB/RB to a session musician arriving at a recording session for the poster's project. The session musician arrives not knowing the songs, the key, tempo or chord progression. You have to tell the musician about your project. I was telling the poster that BIAB/RB arrives at his DAW session the same way.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Thanks for clarifying, Charlie. I saw exactly where you were coming from, and actually had a quiet chuckle  . But you've clarified just in case some thought it was a negative remark (which it wasn't  ). Trev
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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I suggested it earlier, I will add this again as I think it might be relevant.
Maybe it is a good idea to have a splash screen on the start with couple of video tutorials offered, right from the "start".
For example: 1)Getting started. 2)Complete backing track making. 3)All tutorials.
For the first one something very simple 3-5 minute walk through on basic stuff.
For the second something more complex: bar changes, tempo changes, use of soloist, etc. Still making a single song, not just parts of the project. So the first time user sees the whole process / workflow.
And third will point to website to all tutorials.
And of course have a tick on the bottom "do not display on start" I have seen similar approaches on couple of software titles. Very effective.
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Yes, having the splash screen with help for new users is a good idea, with the checkbox to turn off.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Hi Charlie,
Very helpful. I missed this tutorial, as I started with BIAB 2020.
Although I already have the tempo map in my DAW, it looks as if RB could help me to analyze tempo variations and even time signature changes in a very comfortable way in the future.
It would be even nicer if the BIAB plugin would try to follow the tempo map of my DAW as other plugins do. If necessary learning and storing the time signature and tempo changes during some dry run before any styles are selected and further tracks are generated.
But as it looks at the moment, I have to copy some of the track(s) to RB or BIAB Standalone first, analyze the tempo and the chords, save the song there, start the BIAB plugin in my DAW, importing the BIAB song and hoping that the plugin and the DAW will stay in sync. A bit clumpsy kind of procedure, but it may work.
Cheers Roland
[size:8pt]BiaB2023 Plus, Win11, AMD 8-core, 32GByte RAM, RME Fireface UFX, Samplitude ProX8, REAPER 7, Melodyne 5 Studio, Toontrack SD3, iZotope MP4, NI Komplete 12, Korg Collection, etc.
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< It would be even nicer if the BIAB plugin would try to follow the tempo map of my DAW >
It can be done. I'm not sure if the Plugin does, but certainly the full Band in a Box program or RealBand does.
If you export an audio track from your DAW project, and use the Audio Chord Wizard from either Band in a Box or RealBand, it will create a tempo map that will faithfully and accurately follow that audio so when you export a midi or RealTrack back into your DAW to use it as a track in your project, it will be in sync with your DAW project.
You can also use the click track method from the tutorial above but it will likely not be as exact as a tempo map created from the Audio Chord Wizard (ACW)
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 02/11/20 10:17 AM.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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PG Music Staff
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> It would be even nicer if the BIAB plugin would try to follow the tempo map of my DAW as other plugins do.
Agreed. Currently I’m unaware of any protocol that would allow a plugin to retrieve the tempo map that is set in the DAW. Plugins are intended to be “live” (ie processing MIDI or audio in real time) so they don’t get much access to things while they are stopped.
There’d be a (slightly awkward) way of doing it, by exporting a MIDI file from the DAW and then dragging that midi file onto the plugin, where the plugin could then read tempos and time sigs from the MIDI file. That’s not implemented yet for the plugin, its something we’re planning.
Have Fun! Peter Gannon PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: May 2000
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PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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> It can be done. I'm not sure if the Plugin does, but certainly the full Band in a Box program or RealBand does.
Yes, BIAB and RealBand allow making bar/tempo maps like that. The plugin doesn’t.
Have Fun! Peter Gannon PG Music Inc.
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Enthusiast
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Hi Peter,
Thanks for your reply. It's good to hear about the planned improvements for the plugin.
As working as an IT Manager for software, I can imagine the challenges your software engineers are facing with my kind of requests and a huge product like BiaB with such a long history. Besides the technical challenges you also have to deal with the diverting expectations of your traditional customers and new ones who may ask for new concepts. I don't expect any miracles.
I am also aware of the challenges in conjunction with real time processing, especially when it comes to time critical operations like audio processing. Again, I don't expect any miracles.
Just some hint: It might be worth if your software engineeers for the plugin have a deeper look into the ARA protocol. I don't have a deeper understanding of it. But from what I figured out, programs like Melodyne Studio must face similar challenges like BIAB, despite the fact that they serve a different purpose. And Celemony does an excellent job when it comes to seamless integration with all kind of DAWs.
It may not work for BIAB in the end, but is always worth having a look what others do.
Cheers Roland
[size:8pt]BiaB2023 Plus, Win11, AMD 8-core, 32GByte RAM, RME Fireface UFX, Samplitude ProX8, REAPER 7, Melodyne 5 Studio, Toontrack SD3, iZotope MP4, NI Komplete 12, Korg Collection, etc.
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> It might be worth if your software engineeers for the plugin have a deeper look into the ARA protoco
Yes, we’ve had a look at that. It seems ideally suited to modifying a selected region of DAW audio. I’m not aware of what information it can get from a DAW when playback isn’t happening, such as the full tempo map, or chord names.
Have Fun! Peter Gannon PG Music Inc.
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Hi Peter,
Let me quickly explain where I see the parallels and the integration potential for BIAB using ARA2.
Also the Melodyne plugin has to analyze the input coming from the DAW. It does so when applying the plugin to an existing audio track. The Melodyne plugin takes the song tempo from the DAW and analyzes the audio file for the played notes. After that it seems to share the file with the DAW. Meaning that all changes done within the plugin are directly available for playback and further effect processing in the DAW.
The main difference between BIAB and Melodyne is, that BIAB creates tracks itself, whereas Melodyne just uses existing ones. But that shouldn't be a big problem. In case of the BIAB plugin, it would be necessary to do some assignment between one of the BIAB tracks and the DAW track, likely using the audio track in BIAB as a start. The full tempo map could come from the DAW, like in Melodyne. If not using your ACW function as equivalent to what Melodyne does, a chordsheet import could also be an option.
Within the Melodyne plugin, I can switch between the tracks or work on several tracks in parallel. That's pretty similar to what happens within the BIAB plugin already. But with BIAB I currently don't have the separate tracks in my DAW. I have to import them one by one, every time I make a change in BIAB. Creating a track in the DAW first, assigning the BIAB plugin and sharing the respective track in BiAB would be a more natural workflow.
With Melodyne, many DAWs offer an audio to Midi conversion, creating a new separate midi track in the DAW on demand. In case of BIAB, the equivalent would probably be to create and assign a Midi Super track to the new DAW track.
The good thing about ARA2 is, that all major DAWs I know already support it. According to the time it took to get there, it must have been quite some effort for the DAW providers to adapt such a standard. So it should be in their interest to make most out of it and to re-use it whereever possible. What I don't know though, is the policy and willingness of Celemony to share this standard with other products. But if you are interested you should be able to find out. At the end of the day it might be a win/win situation for both companies and definitely for the customers.
Cheers Roland
[size:8pt]BiaB2023 Plus, Win11, AMD 8-core, 32GByte RAM, RME Fireface UFX, Samplitude ProX8, REAPER 7, Melodyne 5 Studio, Toontrack SD3, iZotope MP4, NI Komplete 12, Korg Collection, etc.
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Apprentice
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Currently I’m unaware of any protocol that would allow a plugin to retrieve the tempo map that is set in the DAW. Plugins are intended to be “live” (ie processing MIDI or audio in real time) so they don’t get much access to things while they are stopped.
There’d be a (slightly awkward) way of doing it, by exporting a MIDI file from the DAW and then dragging that midi file onto the plugin, where the plugin could then read tempos and time sigs from the MIDI file. That’s not implemented yet for the plugin, its something we’re planning. Without ARA the audio plugins are listening to the live audio stream for analysis. If the plugin could listen to the MIDI stream it should be able to derive the tempo map from MIDI the clock. As the plugin is an instrument it could be placed on a dedicated MIDI track in every DAW. It could be required to play the complete length of the song once to get the tempo map into the plugin, but without the need of exporting or importing MIDI files. Maybe the plugin could gather the data even if the DAW is rendering the track offline. Masi PS: Dragging MIDI files into the plugin would be great for adding the soloist to the plugin.
Band-in-a-Box, BiaB-plugin, Reaper, Win10 64bit, i7-8565U, 24GB RAM (always latest versions)
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You should be able to get and set the tempo map from the BB Plugin in Reaper with API: Count DAW tempo markers for BB plugin: int CountTempoTimeSigMarkers(ReaProject* proj ) Get DAW tempo map for BB plugin: bool GetTempoTimeSigMarker(ReaProject* proj, int ptidx, double* timeposOut, int* measureposOut, double* beatposOut, double* bpmOut, int* timesig_numOut, int* timesig_denomOut, bool* lineartempoOut ) Add tempo markers to DAW from BB Plugin tempo map:bool AddTempoTimeSigMarker(ReaProject* proj, double timepos, double bpm, int timesig_num, int timesig_denom, bool lineartempochange ) Same with Chords: int AddProjectMarker2(ReaProject* proj, bool isrgn, double pos, double rgnend, const char* name, int wantidx, int color )
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Oct 2015
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Expert
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Expert
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If you export an audio track from your DAW project, and use the Audio Chord Wizard from either Band in a Box or RealBand, it will create a tempo map that will faithfully and accurately follow that audio so when you export a midi or RealTrack back into your DAW to use it as a track in your project, it will be in sync with your DAW project. Yes, BIAB and RealBand allow making bar/tempo maps like that. The plugin doesn’t. Just wonder, when it's already done for audio, why is it not done for Midi? When we load midi with bar/tempo maps included, BiaB cant't/will not read it... This makes is useless as a serious midi program for MANY midifiles, classical music in particular, I guess. I have no idea why this is not done, but wonder IF it is on the table to be implemented? Because, THAT is the last obstacle to import/render/ and add Real tracks/Drums to ANY midifiles, AND it would make BiaB SUPERIOR in an unmatched way, to any other music program software out there, as far as I can understand...
Forever Grateful, BUT, sometimes pissed of. Trygve "Leo" Larsen BiaB 2020, Windows 8.1, Intel Core i5 CPU, 270GHz, 32 Gb RAM My OLD tracks on Soundcloud; https://soundcloud.com/trygve-larsen My NEW is unpublished The Universe = Uni-verse ie one song.
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You may want to experiment with rendering your midi file to audio and and having the ACW create a tempo map. I have no idea how accurate that will work for classical music but it works like a champ for easy listening, rock and country that's normally a single time signature. There is a tutorial video about creating a click track in RealBand and creating a click track may be a useful first step to identify areas that have different time signatures if that's applicable to your song project.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Expert
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You may want to experiment with rendering your midi file to audio and and having the ACW create a tempo map. I have no idea how accurate that will work for classical music but it works like a champ for easy listening, rock and country that's normally a single time signature. There is a tutorial video about creating a click track in RealBand and creating a click track may be a useful first step to identify areas that have different time signatures if that's applicable to your song project. Yes, that is a good workaround. So I'll have that in mind next time I have a long midifile with a lot of BPM variations. But STILL badly want PG Music to implement midi BPM readings.. Perhaps I should make a post about it here to see how many others also want that...
Forever Grateful, BUT, sometimes pissed of. Trygve "Leo" Larsen BiaB 2020, Windows 8.1, Intel Core i5 CPU, 270GHz, 32 Gb RAM My OLD tracks on Soundcloud; https://soundcloud.com/trygve-larsen My NEW is unpublished The Universe = Uni-verse ie one song.
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So I'll have that in mind next time I have a long midifile with a lot of BPM variations. But STILL badly want PG Music to implement midi BPM readings.. Perhaps I should make a post about it here to see how many others also want that... Yes, unless PGM already have that in progress, that's a good starting point.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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You should be able to get and set the tempo map from the BB Plugin in Reaper with API: Count DAW tempo markers for BB plugin: int CountTempoTimeSigMarkers(ReaProject* proj ) Get DAW tempo map for BB plugin: bool GetTempoTimeSigMarker(ReaProject* proj, int ptidx, double* timeposOut, int* measureposOut, double* beatposOut, double* bpmOut, int* timesig_numOut, int* timesig_denomOut, bool* lineartempoOut ) Add tempo markers to DAW from BB Plugin tempo map:bool AddTempoTimeSigMarker(ReaProject* proj, double timepos, double bpm, int timesig_num, int timesig_denom, bool lineartempochange ) Same with Chords: int AddProjectMarker2(ReaProject* proj, bool isrgn, double pos, double rgnend, const char* name, int wantidx, int color ) Great job and another smart way to create tempo maps and chord sheets. However this is not exactly what I mean with "seamless integration". From the nature of BiaB it is obvious and I understand that it needs the chord sheet somehow. However as plugin version it should always follow the tempo and the time signature of the DAW whereas the standalone version may do it's own stuff. That's the main difference between a plugin and a standalone version. If an initially imported midi file helps the plugin to do so, that would be fine with me. But the plugin could also pick the project tempo from the DAW as a start and detect/store the DAW tempo and time signature during a first run through. Obviously, if the tempo is changed by the user in the DAW, the plugin should detect such a deviation as it has to re-render the affected areas of the audio tracks in such a case. If that couldn't be done on the fly, ok with me. Some dropouts until the re-rendering is completed, would be tolerable from my point of view. Editable time signatures and project tempo boxes should be obsolete within the plugin. Even the bars information should be obsolete in the plugin. The plugin should always follow the DAW from the first bar to the last bar of the song and if it runs out of chords on its way, so be it. Let's amend the chordsheet in this case.
Last edited by Roland S; 02/21/20 11:28 PM.
[size:8pt]BiaB2023 Plus, Win11, AMD 8-core, 32GByte RAM, RME Fireface UFX, Samplitude ProX8, REAPER 7, Melodyne 5 Studio, Toontrack SD3, iZotope MP4, NI Komplete 12, Korg Collection, etc.
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Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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