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How it is now using the BB .SGU format it only stores tempo for each bar not for each beat and it rounds the tempo to a whole number, it has not got real time signatures other than 3/4 4/4 and only 255 bars. RealBand has real time signatures and decimal tempo maps and it's own file format .SEQ and more than 255 bars.
It needs fixing to be able to play back the already generated tracks to the tempo map so if the tempo is changed in the DAW then it will play back the already generated tracks to that change so if you are using ACID render that will automatically fit the DAW track when dragged in, if you are not using ACID in you DAW then you can re-generate to the new tempo map. Once the play from RAM is implemented this will be a lot easier and quicker.

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Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle


"The future of PG Music is the DAW Plugin "

Over time the DAW plugin will draw in traditional DAW users including professional studios and audio/video production houses. The DAW plugin will develop into a plugin that does not have to rely on background tasks and helper apps. The plugin will continue to have a limited feature set as compared to the Band-in-a-Box program. The DAW plugin will continue to be part of the Band-in-a-Box packages.
This is because it needs PG Music content to be very useful



Amen.

And it seems to me PG resources aren't enough even to just pro out a proper plugin as desired let alone work on a full DAW.
Why on earth reinvent the wheel? Plus it has to be mentioned that PG musics ability to come up with respectable and modern user interfaces is questionable.

Leave stuff that DAWs , notnstion programs and Pro tools can do much better to DAWs and pro tools.

A better tactic would be to make the plugin for as seamlessly as possible in a DAW - similar to how Melodyne is becoming.


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Originally Posted By: LtKojak
Originally Posted By: Rob Helms
where RB/PTPA fit in the DAW landscape

Rob, BIAB is NOT a DAW. Never has been, never will be.

The way of the future, as I see it, is to better develop BIAB as a plug-in, teaming up with Cakewalk by BandLab, Presonus Studio One and Reaper, maybe adding/developing features exclusive to each one's workflows of those three.

Presonus' Studio One would make more sense, as they already have the "Chord Track" feature, which could be developed further to blend with BIAB's Real Track and Styles features, turning it into the most advanced DAW/Composing/Songwriting combo on the market, in which BIAB VST could be offered as an paying add-on for the Prime (free) version, the Artist (limited)version and the Pro (full-fledged) version, making it compatible with their new add-on business model.



I note you totally excluded the major DAWs Cubase and Logic. Nor Digital Performer. Cubase in particular has chord track features and what better than to be able to match it up with parts from BIAB via the plugin?.

So when it comes to teaming up - Steinberg would make a lot of sense.

The three *old* mainstream DAWs are also used extensively by composers working for tv, media, games and film - and to have a tool which offers instant session musicians will help a lot of those dudes get work out the door when fast turnaround is required. Whether for mockups or final versions.


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The issue with "working seamlessly with all DAWs" is each DAW has it's own method for communicating with plugins. So a simple goal reveals a complex issue.

An even larger issue is PG Music has not clearly defined the plugin set of features. What capability does PG Music expect the plugin to deliver? What does agreeing with the Band-in-a-Box Lite nickname mean in terms of PG Music expectations and the plugin feature set?

Once the plugin feature set is defined, what is required to work seamlessly becomes much clearer.


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Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
The issue with "working seamlessly with all DAWs" is each DAW has it's own method for communicating with plugins. So a simple goal reveals a complex issue.

An even larger issue is PG Music has not clearly defined the plugin set of features. What capability does PG Music expect the plugin to deliver? What does agreeing with the Band-in-a-Box Lite nickname mean in terms of PG Music expectations and the plugin feature set?

Once the plugin feature set is defined, what is required to work seamlessly becomes much clearer.


In the world of data and voice communications they standardised a model for how the different protocols fit together. For example, how one Ethernet card speaks to another. They did not say how the card should be made but how the signal enters the card and how it must leave.

I thought that is what the VST implementation was about. If a plugin uses the term VST it should comply to a set of rules. DAWs should also comply if they are “VST Compliant”. Maybe a Standards organisation is required in a similar vein to the IEEE lot that look after Electronic Communications. That way one can be sure if the have a VST it will work in your DAW.

My thoughts
Tony


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Originally Posted By: Teunis
In the world of data and voice communications they standardised a model for how the different protocols fit together. For example, how one Ethernet card speaks to another. They did not say how the card should be made but how the signal enters the card and how it must leave.

I thought that is what the VST implementation was about. If a plugin uses the term VST it should comply to a set of rules. DAWs should also comply if they are “VST Compliant”. Maybe a Standards organisation is required in a similar vein to the IEEE lot that look after Electronic Communications. That way one can be sure if the have a VST it will work in your DAW.

My thoughts
Tony

I absolutely agree 100%.
Standards and consistency are the most vital factors when individual systems need to interact - seamlessly.


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Tony,

I don't disagree with you. But the VST specification is not a standard, the specification is proprietary. The VST specification was created and released by Steinburg in 1996 to encourage the development of third party effects for use in Cubase. Steinburg can decide to charge a license fee or quit support any time they desire.

Steinburg released the first VST3 specification in 2008 and discontinued VST2 support in 2013. However many programs, including Band-in-a-Box, do not support the use of VST3 since there are so many VST2 effects and developers continue to release new VST2 effects.

People gravitate to what they are familiar with and comfortable using. VST has mass acceptance and momentum similar to MP3.

Interesting reading: +++ Virtual Studio Technology on Wikipedia +++


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Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
However many programs, including Band-in-a-Box, do not support the use of VST3 since there are so many VST2 effects and developers continue to release new VST2 effects.

I can only speculate why hosts offer no support for VST3, but what I know is that you cannot get the VST2 SDK any more.

This means only developers who have already an SDK can continue to create no VST2 plugins. Everybody else is forced to create VST3 plugins.

Masi


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Free Plugin Chainer Element + BB VST3 Support + More Midi Tracks Win\Mac
and in the future..
https://discourse.ardour.org/t/pg-musics-realband/102739
You could easily add RealDrums to it also for Linux users like you do with PowerTracks as there is no Linux Biab unless Ardour or a Linux Biab Plugin could communicate with a BBW4 in a WineBottle ?

See the amount of users:
https://community.ardour.org/ping_stats

Code:
Current Status

Version	Linux   OS X    Windows
4.0	6678	1050	0
4.1	6118	711	191
4.2	6279	843	363
4.4	7053	1288	409
4.6	3521	655	248
4.7	13547	2040	579
5.0	2029	679	2095
5.1	576	73	118
5.2	7	1	0
5.3	3963	488	844
5.4	2816	1104	2322
5.5	5702	1087	2725
5.6	1256	276	524
5.8	7845	958	2106
5.9	1660	308	828
5.10	2907	622	1644
5.11	1223	372	1025
5.12	25537	7438	25899

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Originally Posted by Roland S
Hi Peter,

Let me quickly explain where I see the parallels and the integration potential for BIAB using ARA2.

Also the Melodyne plugin has to analyze the input coming from the DAW. It does so when applying the plugin to an existing audio track. The Melodyne plugin takes the song tempo from the DAW and analyzes the audio file for the played notes. After that it seems to share the file with the DAW. Meaning that all changes done within the plugin are directly available for playback and further effect processing in the DAW.

The main difference between BIAB and Melodyne is, that BIAB creates tracks itself, whereas Melodyne just uses existing ones. But that shouldn't be a big problem.
In case of the BIAB plugin, it would be necessary to do some assignment between one of the BIAB tracks and the DAW track, likely using the audio track in BIAB as a start. The full tempo map could come from the DAW, like in Melodyne. If not using your ACW function as equivalent to what Melodyne does, a chordsheet import could also be an option.

Within the Melodyne plugin, I can switch between the tracks or work on several tracks in parallel. That's pretty similar to what happens within the BIAB plugin already. But with BIAB I currently don't have the separate tracks in my DAW. I have to import them one by one, every time I make a change in BIAB. Creating a track in the DAW first, assigning the BIAB plugin and sharing the respective track in BiAB would be a more natural workflow.

With Melodyne, many DAWs offer an audio to Midi conversion, creating a new separate midi track in the DAW on demand. In case of BIAB, the equivalent would probably be to create and assign a Midi Super track to the new DAW track.

The good thing about ARA2 is, that all major DAWs I know already support it. According to the time it took to get there, it must have been quite some effort for the DAW providers to adapt such a standard. So it should be in their interest to make most out of it and to re-use it whereever possible.
What I don't know though, is the policy and willingness of Celemony to share this standard with other products. But if you are interested you should be able to find out. At the end of the day it might be a win/win situation for both companies and definitely for the customers.

Cheers
Roland

Can I just add my support to adding ARA support. first into the BIAB plugin - so Cubase and use and edit BIAB songs in the BB Plugin

but... also - now that the BIAB 2024 version of standalone is looking more like a DAW with the new tracks views - also to consider ARA support INSIDE BIAB standalone! - this is - for me - specifically - to be able to host the AI vocalist Synthesiser V. inside BIAB standalone - in ARA mode! this would allow one to create and edit AI vocalist tracks as if they were audio/MIDI tracks - and would be so powerful - say as a song demo feature before - say hiring a pro vocalist or submitting a song to a band/publisher etc.

ARA Baby!


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Originally Posted by nonchai
Originally Posted by Roland S
Hi Peter,

Let me quickly explain where I see the parallels and the integration potential for BIAB using ARA2.

Also the Melodyne plugin has to analyze the input coming from the DAW. It does so when applying the plugin to an existing audio track. The Melodyne plugin takes the song tempo from the DAW and analyzes the audio file for the played notes. After that it seems to share the file with the DAW. Meaning that all changes done within the plugin are directly available for playback and further effect processing in the DAW.

The main difference between BIAB and Melodyne is, that BIAB creates tracks itself, whereas Melodyne just uses existing ones. But that shouldn't be a big problem.
In case of the BIAB plugin, it would be necessary to do some assignment between one of the BIAB tracks and the DAW track, likely using the audio track in BIAB as a start. The full tempo map could come from the DAW, like in Melodyne. If not using your ACW function as equivalent to what Melodyne does, a chordsheet import could also be an option.

Within the Melodyne plugin, I can switch between the tracks or work on several tracks in parallel. That's pretty similar to what happens within the BIAB plugin already. But with BIAB I currently don't have the separate tracks in my DAW. I have to import them one by one, every time I make a change in BIAB. Creating a track in the DAW first, assigning the BIAB plugin and sharing the respective track in BiAB would be a more natural workflow.

With Melodyne, many DAWs offer an audio to Midi conversion, creating a new separate midi track in the DAW on demand. In case of BIAB, the equivalent would probably be to create and assign a Midi Super track to the new DAW track.

The good thing about ARA2 is, that all major DAWs I know already support it. According to the time it took to get there, it must have been quite some effort for the DAW providers to adapt such a standard. So it should be in their interest to make most out of it and to re-use it whereever possible.
What I don't know though, is the policy and willingness of Celemony to share this standard with other products. But if you are interested you should be able to find out. At the end of the day it might be a win/win situation for both companies and definitely for the customers.

Cheers
Roland

Can I just add my support to adding ARA support. first into the BIAB plugin - so Cubase and use and edit BIAB songs in the BB Plugin

but... also - now that the BIAB 2024 version of standalone is looking more like a DAW with the new tracks views - also to consider ARA support INSIDE BIAB standalone! - this is - for me - specifically - to be able to host the AI vocalist Synthesiser V. inside BIAB standalone - in ARA mode! this would allow one to create and edit AI vocalist tracks as if they were audio/MIDI tracks - and would be so powerful - say as a song demo feature before - say hiring a pro vocalist or submitting a song to a band/publisher etc.

ARA Baby!

Peter and Nonchai, adding ARA2 support to the main Band-in-a-Box program and the Band-in-a-Box plugin is a great idea. +1


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PG Music News
New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!

We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!

Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!

Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.

Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles

Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)

And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.

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  • Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
  • Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
  • MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
  • Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
  • Playable RealTracks Set 4
  • RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
  • SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
  • 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.

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  • 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
  • FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
  • Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
  • Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
  • MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
  • Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
  • RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe

Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!

New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!

Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!

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In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!

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Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!

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We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!

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XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!

Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!

We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!

In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!

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Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.

Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!

We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!

We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!

If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!

Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.

Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support

Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.

Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support

Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins

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