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Joined: Jun 2009
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Jun 2009
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Man, I just got done watching the video Ed had placed on the Tips and Tricks topic of acoustic bass guitar VSIs. And although I absolutely love that we are coming more and more closer to emulating a real band right from our computer. But, at the same time, I cannot help but question, what will the music performance field look like a few years? What ramifications will these awesome ideas have when the time comes when they are mainstream?
Will the concert that we go to then consist of paying tickets to watch someone step onto a stage click the mouse on the PC and walk away? Will there be music critics out there that will observe the technique of the walk the guy did as he approached the computer? Perhaps a paragraph on the way he moved the mouse to click "play." And what will the then old timers be speaking about when talking about the legends of music in that day? Perhaps they will say something like, "I have clicked the mouse a million times and cannot get it to do what that "legend" did."
Funny, but...
RickeG
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We will long for the good old days where a drummer showed up late to rehearsal, drank all the beer, fell asleep on your couch and stole your girlfriend. The bass player wanted to play a solo in the middle of freebird, and the background singers fought over who gets to do a solo over the lead. The lead guitar got all upset when he left his lucky pick at the show in birmingham, and refused to play until he got another one!
Hmmmm that silly computer is not sounding to bad huh!
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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I go with the computer route. Like someone else has mentioned, all musicians are ON TIME and ON KEY. So, I'll take my chances. Having played live for many years in Germany (and some here in the US in clubs), I remember all the mishaps. Human interaction is still desired, at least for me, but when it comes to music:
BIAB and a collab partner or two to get some music done that sounds good.
Yeah.
Cheers, Mike My Music * Asus ROG Strix G15CF 32 GB DDR4 4TB HDD + 1 TB SSD NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 8GB Win 11 AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2024 UltraPak Build - Latest
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People will continue to go to live concerts for the same reason they go to car races: there is always the possibility that something will go horribly wrong. Then they can feel all superior an junk.  Seriously, there is a dynamic in live ensemble performance that just doesn't exist in a recording or programmed piece, especially when accomplished musicians are involved. That can never be replaced. People talked about the demise of the orchestra when the performance synthesizer was introduced. Didn't happen then, ain't gonna happen now. R.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Quote:
The lead guitar got all upset when he left his lucky pick at the show in birmingham, and refused to play until he got another one!
Did "you" find my pick?!?  
RE: the topic. . . I think there is plenty room for both depending on the application and/or venue. Heck just listen to some of todays so called stars when they live perform live. As recently as last weeks Grammys, Taylor Hicks and The Witch Woman Nicks, between them the could not find the correct pitch for an entire tune. So while I despise lip sync performances, I wonder if this is not worse.
If that happened to me in front of one of my "small" audience I would freak out and think about quitting the business.
Of course I would rather listen to accomplished live musicians anyday, but man if the dude lost his favorite pick it's over.
Later,
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Quote:
People will continue to go to live concerts for the same reason they go to car races: there is always the possibility that something will go horribly wrong. Then they can feel all superior an junk.
Big, I mean BIG live acts, I agree.
Quote:
Seriously, there is a dynamic in live ensemble performance that just doesn't exist in a recording or programmed piece, especially when accomplished musicians are involved. That can never be replaced.
Absolutely agree with you there, Richard.
However:
I know quite a few 4 to 6 piece bands, playing in quite a few different genres and live in big cities, who cannot get a paying gig anymore. If they do, it's not worth the gas money. With the economy as it is right now, it's extremely bad. But, even prior to the economical disaster that hit this country, people aren't going to see their local bands anymore. Some States are better than others, but for the most part, "bands" are simply out of luck these days as far as gigs are concerned. You stand a better chance as a solo or duo act to get a half way decent gig. Some blame it on the economy, others blame it on the digital distribution of music so widely available, a lot of that for free.
Something to ponder about. Would love to hear some other opinions on that as well.
Cheers,
Mike
Last edited by MikeK; 02/04/10 03:57 PM.
Cheers, Mike My Music * Asus ROG Strix G15CF 32 GB DDR4 4TB HDD + 1 TB SSD NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 8GB Win 11 AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2024 UltraPak Build - Latest
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I'm a jazz pianist and only use real bass and real drums for accompaniment tracks. The success of the performance depends on my playing. I've been to other gigs of BIAB users and personally can't stand players who depend on BIAB for solos and the bulk of the playing. Before BIAB, there were plenty of bad players out there and now there are more with BIAB! I've heard a lot of good music on the this forum using BIAB, but the live player is the main focus of the song, not BIAB. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Expert
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Remember the original Linn Drum machine? It sounded horrible, weighed a TON, and was very expensive. All the drummers said "Man, it'll never work, I can't be replaced". Then the pop hits of the 80's came out with the Linn Drum and next thing you know, the friendly next door Elks club band had a shiny new linn drum (Hey, we gotta sound like Air Supply!) minus the drummer.
BIAB came out about 1990, most musicians I knew then didn't have a laptop, but there where a huge number of lounge bands with a big Desktop running Mastertracks pro or Studio Vision with their Yamaha DX-7 and Linn Drum. State of the art! So many bands cut back from 10 or 12 musicians down to 6 or so.
Forward to 2000, digital recording and VST's made it much easier to play with sequences onstage, but most bands still had to have a BIG rack for all the modules and effect units. Most clubs won't pay for anything over a Quartet, so Bass and Drum players were having a tough time.
Forward to today. I live in a tourist town (Acapulco) we have a 4 mile long chain of huge Hotels. Those hotels USED to have a full time 8 to 10 piece bands playing day and night. Now, most Hotels only have a DJ and the one's that do have a band, it's a trio or duo. I am playing most of my events alone, using an iPod with MP3's I make using BIAB and Sonar. I always try to get the manager to hire a group with me, but I always get the same answer "I'm sorry, there is no budget for that". Thank God they have the budget to hire a DJ to sit around and smoke, drink, steal food from the buffet, chat up the help while looking "cool" with his headphones half on while "Mixing" the next tune.........(sarcasm)
As Wynton Marsalis said "We live in a Cultural Dark age".............how true.
Ed
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Apprentice
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Apprentice
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Curious, what do those of you who do solo gigs using backing tracks typically charge for doing a 3 to 4-hour gig? I play in various-size groups from 4 to 10 people, but the handwriting is on the wall that solo or duet artists are the way things are headed, and with the help of RB/BIAB I want to be ready for the transition. Thanks for anyone who cares to share this information.
Terry
BIAB/RB 2018 PlusPak. Dell Inspiron23 running Win10, 12GB RAM, 2.5GHz i7, Presonus AudioBox USB interface.
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Journeyman
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Easy now, there is much to be said about the perfect pick. I carry mine zipped in my wallet. It takes time to wear that thing down to where it plays right. That's how I could tell the lame players out there when they would throw their picks out at the audience to be cool. Too funny. Ask any heavy picker.
I suppose before we get too sentimental about the good ole band days, a simple one-time viewing of Spinal Tap will restore our focus back to why we use applications like BIAB!
Multi-tracker, I have a friend living in the Northeast US that charges about $100 per hour. She is basically running a DJ system with the lead vocal tracks removed to where she and her husband insert their voices. Because they cover everything from Sinatra to Spears they get a lot of bookings from private parties to nursing homes. They don't touch the club circuit. They don't need to. One gig spawns several more. I esepcially like their setup. They roll in with a Bose system, laptop along with a couple of microphones. They are good to go. The key to their success is they play EVERYTHING. My friend was also trained as an opera singer.
So, as one posted, there is still a desire to see live music out there in certain parts of the country more than others. Where I live, the rednecks use the band for target practice (guns and beer bottles).
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Quote:
People talked about the demise of the orchestra when the performance synthesizer was introduced. Didn't happen then, ain't gonna happen now.
R.
New technology always leads to new possibilities, new skill sets, new ways of doing old things better and faster. The blacksmith trade has died out, but the auto repairman took its place.
Many of the kids who are in college today will end up in professions that don't even exist yet.
The music industry is certainly changing. Cool. I like it.
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Embrace the new technology - learn from it - modify and modulate it with the old and present and be ye happy.
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"a simple one-time viewing of Spinal Tap will restore our focus back to why we use applications like BIAB!"
LOL Great movie.
"Seriously, there is a dynamic in live ensemble performance that just doesn't exist in a recording or programmed piece, especially when accomplished musicians are involved. That can never be replaced."
I totally agree with this. No matter how far technology advances - and I love the technology - great vocalists with a great band playing live is magical.
The local club scenes may not be as viable as a starting point for bands any more but for the major artists live shows is still where the money's at and I don't think that will change any time soon. I think up and coming bands will have to play more fairs, festivals, college parties, or rent halls to sell their own shows and be really good.
But for the single performer and songwriters technology is a God send.
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