PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Do I need a sequencer now?

Hi Guys,

Thanks to everyone's help (Gary, Mac, et al) I have my M-Audio KeyRig 49 working with BIAB 2006 and the TTS-1 software synth. I have some songs that I've written on paper, and I want to get a tune into MIDI form. I though BIAB could do this by itself, but I see from looking back in other threads I initiated that some of you said I would need a sequencer to accomplish this lofty goal. What would be good and cheap to get me going?

Thanks,

Greg in Orlando

well, if you ever upgrade to BIAB 2010, you'll have Real Band as your sequencer.
http://www.pgmusic.com/rlb_newfeatures.htm

and there's also PowerTracks
http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm

Apart from that, a relatively inexpensive sequencer is Reaper.
http://www.reaper.fm/

If you bought your M-Audio key rig new, It might have come with a sequencing program. Check your CD.

cakewalk Sonar home studio is relatively inexpensive
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Cakewalk-Sonar-Home-Studio-7?sku=710003

Check the generic software rack at best buy. THere might be an inexpensive sequencing program there.

Power Tracks looks cool. Thanks!

Greg

Why not just export as a midi file? Under midi, export type 1, kar, etc. Doesn't 2006 do this?

Robert,

Yes, 2006 has this. Is this all I need? I mean, just to get me rolling?

Thanks!

Greg

For saving just a midi file yes you already have what it takes in BiaB. I save BiaB midi files to bring into Sonar on a regular basis.

If you have a midi icon on your desktop just click on it, I don’t remember if 2006 had this or not. If not click on file, make a standard midi file, then file to disk to save it. This is on BiaB 2010 but I’m pretty sure it has been the same for some time now.

I hope this helps - MarioD

You'll probably still want to use a proper sequencer one day, to edit those MIDI files that Biab makes. That needn't cost you anything, though.

As Pat Marr said, Realband will come free as a bonus, if you upgrade BiaB.

Since you own TTS-1, I suspect you have an excellent Cakewalk sequencer already. People generally get TTS-1 in a bundle with other Cakewalk programs. If you scored Music Creator with your TTS-1 (as I seem to remember you posting), you have most of the abilities of Sonar right there.
_________

Since you are familiar with PG stuff, i suggest if the upgrade to 2010 is too much cash right now, just grab PowerTracks and it will work nicely with the midi files that Biab makes.

But if you can afford the upgrade you will get all the real tracks and real drums in the offer, or if that is not interesting do the basic upgrade.

You really should take a hard look at Reaper. A fully licensed version for non-commercial use (which is identical to the 'commercial' version) is only $60.00.

You can also download an entirely uncrippled and untime-limited demo to use until you think it is a worthwhile purchase.

There is one huge differnce between the full version and the demo: the demo loads with a 15 second 'nag' screen that tells you how many days you've been demoing it. Of course, I'm being facietious ... about the "huge difference," that is. Really, I know no other software maker as confident in their product to offer it entirely as shareware on the honor system!

Reaper has the most comprehensive routing scheme of any DAW ... including the $500.00 plus ones.

It fully supports mixing midi and audio on each and every track and each and every track can send or receive from any other track.

It also has a support network as fine as the one here.

While I use Cubase as my DAW ... and I love it ... were I just starting out, didn't have a big investment in learning Cubase and know what I know today about sequencers, it would be Reaper without a doubt.

Prado

Thanks for the suggestion, Prado. Will Reaper handle BIAB files as well as Power Tracks would?

Thanks,

Greg

Cakewalk has SONAR 5, Dimension 5, Project 5, and Music Creator 5. But no Cakewalk 5. So I'm a little confused.

I guess I misspoke, owed to me not knowing any better. I have Cakewalk Music Creator 5. My question is: Is it a sequencer, or does it contain that capability?

Greg,
Let's do the 'Beginners' thing, okay?

First, Yes, Music Creator 5 *IS* a sequencer, and it is also an audio recorder. It's what we call a DAW, or Digital Audio Workstation.

Quote:

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I have some songs that I've written on paper, and I want to get a tune into MIDI form.

---

What I assume you mean by that is that you would like a synthesizer of some sort or another, in this case, most likely your TTS-1, to be able to play certain parts of your song for you, and you would like to be able to add a melody via the Keyrig that you have.

The questions, and the subsequent answers for it, will help you get there. However, there are many questions. I'll ask the first, and give you an answer to that, and where we go from there is up to you.

1. Is the music you have on paper a 'finished product' or is it more like a sketch? When I say that, what I mean is do you have a score already written for specific instruments, or just a chord progression and a melody idea?

Answer 1. Band In A Box is your ultimate sketch tool, because if you know the chords you want, you can easily type them in, select an appropriate backing track, and press Play. In a second or two, you will have a complete backing track for your song. At that point, that backing track can be saved and exported to Music Creator 5. From there, you can record each track as an audio track, and then mix them down to your final product.

On the other hand, if you've written your sheet music for a very specific set of notes, then it would be easier to put it directly into Music Creator 5. You will need to play in, or mouse in, the exact notes at the exact time location you want.

Example of each. If I am doing a generic jazz waltz version of Henry Mancini's "Charade", I could use Band In A Box to lay down the backing tracks I wanted, automatically creating the drums, bass, piano, guitar and strings part for me, and then move it to MC5 where I would lay down my melody tracks, then record all to audio, edit, and mix. However, if I were to want to do Mancini's 'Peter Gunn", that has a VERY specific bass line that Band In A Box will not 'natively' reproduce (although you could write a style for Peter Gunn.) Hence, to get the bass line for Peter Gunn, I would need to manually enter the bass line, or I could play it from the keyboard. However, I may be able to use a jazz drum pattern from BIAB, so I could do both, import directly from BIAB, and write my own bass line.

If I am writing symphonic music, I would most likely have to use MC5 to put in everything in, from the drums, the basses, strings, pianos, etc., since BIAB wouldn't do that too well, especially for classical music.

So, first question is, what kind of stuff do you have written down?

Gary

I wasn't familiar with this product, so I looked at the description on Cakewalk's web site. They are marketing this as a 'beginner recording' package.

It looks pretty good for $39. It does have sequencer features, and there are quite a few things that look a lot like SONAR Professional Edition. The 'family resemblance' is obvious. That means one should be able to move up comfortably when needs require something more powerful.

Anyone interested could take a look here: http://www.cakewalk.com/products/musiccreator/

Greg,
I doubt that I said that MC5 was difficult of work flow and getting you head around it. I've never used the program, so I don't know. What I *may* have said was that the concepts of computer music itself were a steep learning curve, and they are.

I would highly recommend getting some books to help you move from 'noob' to at least having some of the concepts. They will answer a lot of your questions about the hows and whys that you are going to be invariably asking. Two that I would recommend would be these:

http://www.amazon.com/Recording-Studios-...9086&sr=8-1

and

http://www.amazon.com/Home-Recording-Musicians-Dummies-Strong/dp/0470385421/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b

Don't be put off by the 'for Dummies' moniker, these are very well written books, and I have each of them sitting on my bookshelf.

For instance, the Studio book covers Computer Recording Basics, the very basics. It starts with the components of the computer studio and explains what everything is for. You'll also see how to set everything up so it sounds good. It covers Choosing and Installing Computer Hardware. This is the gear talk, and what many of us talk about as 'G.A.S.', or 'Gear Acquisition Syndrome.' Very deadly to your wallet and credit card, if you get a bad enough case of it. However, this will get into what kind of gear you need to make a recording, audio and midi interfaces, mics, mixers, etc. Choosing and Installing Recording Software is the next part of the book, and while you have a lot of that already, it still is worth reading for future reference, and to see how your choices will work. Then, from there, it gets into ideas for making sure your recording is the best, working with plug-ins and more.

The Musicians book gets into very basics, starting with the studio itself, almost a primer for the Studio book. It talks about digital recording systems, and again, studio set up. It gets into Recording 101, mixing boards, mics, MIDI and such. The next part talking about Laying Tracks: Starting to Record, and explains the fundamentals of how and why to use a sequencer. It also gets into some stuff like mic placement, how to use a compressor, and basic editing principals. The next part goes into the Mixing or Mixdown principals, or how to take all the recorded tracks and turn them into a highly polished finished product, and then there's even a section on burning a CD and posting to the internet for others to listen to.

Both of these books are a great starting place to learn about the basic concepts and principals of what you are doing.

Now, to get to your specific issues, since you have most of your stuff as just chords, lyrics and melody, Band In A Box is where you want to start out in. Either using Real Tracks or MIDI, it doesn't matter at this stage, lay out your chord structure, find a style that suits your needs, and press play! All of a sudden, you're going to have a complete back up band that you can play in front of. Play with the different styles, and learn the nuances of the program. When you find something you really like, you can save it as a MIDI file, and then you can open that MIDI file in Music Creator 5. Once you do that, you can start to add tracks to it, either MIDI tracks from your KeyRig, or audio guitar parts from your guitar, mic or direct in box.

Say, for instance, that you've created a backing track that you really like. You can import that into MC5, and then add your live guitar to that song. Now you have a complete song. But, say you want to use a different guitar to replace the MIDI synth guitar that BIAB created. Now, you can add another track of you playing a different guitar and mute the BIAB guitar part. Maybe you want to add a third guitar part to the song, something in the background, like a finger picked sound, and you can add that as well.

So, you can see where BIAB was able to *start* with the backing tracks, but you were able to expand everything in MC5 to give you more. Then, you'll be able to mix all of that down, use plug ins, and recording techniques learned from the books to create an AR ready song.

Hope this helps some.

Later on, when you get comfortable, we can start talking about audio interfaces, MIDI interfaces, and external hardware synths that will make your recordings even better.

Gary

Gary,

Thanks again for the guidance. I think have the second edition of Home Recording For Musicians around here somewhere...

It looks like I already have enough to get started, thanks to my collection of your messages!

Thanks again!

Greg

Good luck, then Greg.

Gary