|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 499
Journeyman
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 499 |
Just lately I have been asking a few questions in this forum with regard to styles. Mainly these were about selecting ordinary midi instruments to replace a RealTrack instruments. As usual there were many very helpful replies on from the members. I'm always amazed at just how much detail these, I would say experts, put into their replies. For this topic it would appear to come down to an understanding of BiaB styles, an understanding that I had at only a superficial level. So, I decided to bite the bullet and try to understand the style system by looking at the StyleMaker topic in the manual. Unfortunately the more I got in to the more impressed I became with what goes on behind the scenes with styles that it led to even more questions that I could not answer from the details given in the manual.
I learned how to create drum patterns and that these patterns are selected by BiaB during song playback with some guidance from the style parameters and most of this was pretty clear from the manuals.
I then went on to look at the patterns for instruments and, by this time, I was feeling I was getting to understand it. This was especially so when I felt that I now understood what was meant by a C7 pattern! This idea of a C7 pattern I had come across before in the manual and I didn't understand what it meant. I had asked on this forum in the past but never got any reply. But now it began to dawn on me that all I was doing with the instrument was using the notes of C7 to construct each instrument patttern; it might be an arpeggio or a riff etc, but the important thing is that the notes were drawn from C7. I understand, at least I think I do, that by choosing the notes in this way, BiaB can then use music theory to change these notes based on the chord being played on the chordsheet. I examined a few styles and, sure enough, they all had notes drawn for C7 - C, E, G, Bb in various octaves.
Then, horror of horrors, I opened a swing style to discover that the notes did NOT come from the C7, that is, not diatonic to the C7 chord! That made me fed up, especially after the length of time working with this topic.
I did notice though that for this particular style that the borders on the patterns in Style Editor were red. I knew this indicated that some extra parameters existed for this style that might be causing this change of notes. Also I could not find anything that might have explained it.
I thought it might have to do with me choosing a swing style, but then I discovered other swing styles that DID conform the the C7 notes.
So my questions, that I really hope somebody can help me with, are:
1. Am I correct in my understanding of the C7 chord pattern. If I am then why do some styles not conform to the pattern?
2. What makes a style a swing style. The patterns in the Style Editor are simply straight notation leading to a even style. What actually makes BiaB alter the 8th notes or 16th notes timing to give the sw8 and sw16 swing respectively. I thought that might be a parameter in the style options, but I can't find it.
Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,385
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,385 |
Basics: Enter everything into the StyleMaker as a C7 chord. Use only C7 chord notes (C E G Bb). When the song plays back with the style you created, it will transpose the notes to something appropriate for the chords in your song.
There are ways to do riffs, but get the basics first. Once you understand that you can go on. There are also bass, keyboard and guitar macros that can really enhance a style, but again, get the basics down first. One step at a time. It takes a learning curve to get the most out of the StyleMaker.
Swing style is somewhere between straight 8ths and dotted 8ths/16ths.
My way to do it is to record a lot in a sequencer (or DAW) in the C7 mode in real time. Then I import snippets of what I record into the StyleMaker and set the appropriate masks so that they appear when I want them to appear and how often I want them to appear if there is more than one snippet for the same situation.
There are a lot of masks, and they don't all work in all situations or in certain combinations. It took me a lot of time, experimentation and practice to get them to work the way I want them to work - or at least as close as I want them to work as BiaB, like any program, does have its limitations.
I don't do the drum grid, although I did way back in the early 90s when that was the only option. IMO The drum grid creates a stiff, quantized drum part with the feel of a robot, not a human -- no groove. Record the parts live preferably from a drum controller although with practice it can be done with a MIDI keyboard.
I'm not exactly sure if I'm answering your question correctly, if not, a more detailed question might help.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 499
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 499 |
In the main you have cleared a lot for me. I just want to confirm about the C7 chord though. I think you are saying what I felt was the case about the meaning of this C7. That is, the midi entered into StyleMaker is effectively just a rhythm pattern using the notes of C7. It These notes are then transposed in accordance with the chord in the chordsheet.
But, that being the case, I discovered some styles that the notes were not diatonic to C7, that's what threw me and prompted me to ask the question. The styles where this occurred I noticed that the pattern border rectangles were coloured red as opposed the usual blue.
With regard to the swing on 8ths and 16ths, the way I saw the stylemaker is that the notes were entered as the would be on the melody line and so I couldn't see that having entered pattern of notes that I could cause this to be 'swung'. But you are saying you record these! Surely that will still produce the normal notation and thus play an even pattern? I am not disputing what you say I just need to be clear.
Thanks a lot for you response and intersting background.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,385
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,385 |
I hope I'm understanding you correctly. If not let me know.
If you enter only C E G Bb into the patterns of the StyleMaker, the style you create should play correct notes for any song you make with that style. A Cm will substitute an Eb for that E and so on.
There are exceptions to the above.
I never use BiaB for notation, as I think of it as a convenience to the app and I don't consider BiaB a full-fledged notation app.
I have an old copy of Encore that fulfills all the notation I need. When it no longer does, I'll get something more powerful.
If you are using the mouse to enter the notes, you are going to get what you click. In the options you can select triplet pattern or straight, but I can't help you on that, because I despise step entering. IMO the only way to get the style to sound like real musicians are playing instead of a robot, is to play the parts in real time and then import them into BiaB.
I'll open up a MIDI sequencer program (or a DAW) and play a long piece of music, all with C7 notes. Drums first, then bass, then the comp instruments. I'll record parts I want to play for specific chords or specific instances in a piece of music, but always using C-E-G-Bb. Then I'll import the patterns, 2 bar, 1 bar, 2 beat, or 1 beat into the StyleMaker.
I play the drums into the MIDI sequencer in real time first because drummer set the groove and the rest of the band needs to follow the groove that the drummer sets. I add the bass next because the drummer and bass player needs to play 'as one'.
By playing back the drum first and adding the other parts on top of it, it's easy to keep everything in the groove.
Whatever groove you play into the MIDI sequencer will be played by BiaB, whether it's swing, straight or anything else. BiaB will however resolve everything to 120 ppq (parts per quarter note) no matter what you record at in your sequencer. When writing for BiaB I tent to set my sequencer up to 240ppq so that it's an even division. I don't really know if that makes a difference or not.
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 499
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 499 |
Hi Notes,
Another great reply and very helpful. Yes, I do understand now. Some time back I had written some notation in BiaB (I'm not that keen on it either but it was handy) and all worked fine. The style under which I'd written the notation was an even style.
Then I tried my melody with a different style, but this time I had chosen a swing style. I noticed the the melody sounded OK under the new style. So I looked at the notation and saw that BiaB had modified the notation with triplets in order to make my melody 'swung'.
By the way, you are flying at a much much higher level than me but its really good to hear your techniques. I took me a long time to grasp what this C7 chord meant. It was fantastic to feel that I understood it. Once I thought I had grasped it from the style patterns being in C7 I was over the moon, especially after confirming it with a few other styles. I was so disappointed when two of the styles I looked at did not follow the C7 chord at all. But the border around those patterns was red and I felt that was something to do with, but I still don't know.
Also, you mention using C7 with drums. I'm lost there though because notes for the drums don't have the same function with regard to the chord sheet.
Thanks again
Jonel
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,385
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,385 |
Sorry to lead you astray. Drums need the proper General MIDI drum notes, not a C7 chord.
I've been writing styles in BiaB since the early 1990s when I was using an Atari/ST computer. I wrote some styles, gave them to my friends, and my friends told me they liked them better than the PG Music "built-in" styles. (Aren't friends great?). So I took out an ad in Electronic Musician magazine and started selling them.
One day Peter Gannon called and offered to convert the Atari styles to PC styles (we called the format IBM back then). Peter has been helpful and encouraging ever since.
Back in the beginning the StyleMaker had 3 instruments and no shots, holds, rests or endings. It's grown step by step since then and I've grown with it.
Get the basic concepts down, and then start working on the advanced features like the masks, macros, multiple patterns for the same situation, and so on.
The masks will allow you to determine when a particular pattern shows up (like after a roll, when a V7 chord leads into a I chord, when the next chord is the same and so on). The macros allow you to make the styles do piano and guitar things that are otherwise either difficult or impossible within the other limitations of Band-in-a-Box.
The more you develop your familiarity with these functions, the more your style will act like a real band. But don't worry about that now, get basic style writing down first, then I suggest add the piano macros as the next step.
I'm happy to help.
Notes
Last edited by Notes Norton; 07/30/20 02:49 AM.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
Join the conversation on our forum.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums58
Topics84,397
Posts778,671
Members39,648
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean