When I drag a generated RealTrack to MID and then drag it to my DAW I get a nice MIDI version of the track that I can assign my own virtual instrument to. Fantastic!
But I am curious if the "humanness" of the RealTrack is preserved in the MIDI? Things like volume changes, timing, etc. The things that make RealTracks sound like a human playing rather than a perfect robot playing.
Dunno if I'm describing this correctly but when I work strictly in MIDI it can sound robotic. And the humanize feature often makes a track sound more like a malfunctioning robot than a human!
I am hoping the nuances of a RealTrack that make it sound so natural are retained in the MIDI!
It depends on several things. Does the RealTrack even have MIDI? Not all do. All the keyboards do, now, and as of BIAB 2021, so do all the RealDrums.
Other instruments may have MIDI for educational purposes but it won’t have the nuances of a real performer. In the early days of ReslTracks, I was paid to transcribe some of the sax and guitar parts. I believe this is fully automated now. The parts I made looked correct for educational purposes but sounded like a robot, with no dynamics or varying articulation, scooping etc.
Piano tracks should work well, as they are recorded on a digital piano so the MIDI should be as good as MIDI can be.
Does that help?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Good question. I can only answer from my experience. I have found that a BIAB midi file which has been transcribed from a RT will NOT sound all that well. It will be missing the expression AND velocity which is only coded when a Real Instrument is being recorded by a midi recorder. MST Pianos sound excellent, as they are recorded with a midi instrument, but the midi from a Transcribed Rt audio file piano will not. Their value for this is limited to creating sheet music.
I only recently checked out the midi from a RD track. I found the midi associated with the RD track to be pretty good. It did have velocity data on all the hits. I can only suspect that it was captured on a midi drum kit which records the midi concurrently with the audio recorded by mics. I don't know if all RD midi is done this way.
This has been talked about a lot in the forum over the years but is always good to keep in mind. Matt has the same take as I do, however I would answer your question not with a "maybe", but with a "sometimes".
Dan
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
#3 is easy. All the PG Music piano RealTracks are supposed to be this way.
#1, look in the Notation column of the RealTracks picker window.
If you know #1 and #3, then anything else that has MIDI may be recorded with 'humanity', or may be only transcribed, and I don't know except by listening to the MIDI how to tell the difference.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
One way is to open the midi file in Reaper and look to see if velocity data exists? It is either there or it is not. Otherwise, not sure...
BTW, Matt either has all these answers queued up in a database or he is a very fast typer.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
I think another though on this is that many of the earlier chart were added to the RTs to drive the notation window so they did not need human feeling. I think this is right?!?
Seems to be a year to year growth thing.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
One way is to open the midi file in Reaper and look to see if velocity data exists? It is either there or it is not. Otherwise, not sure...
BTW, Matt either has all these answers queued up in a database or he is a very fast typer.
Good idea but velocity data does not tell the entire picture. If there is a MIDI note then there will be a velocity. One problem is if all of the note velocities are the same then the initial volume and timbre could be the same. Another is if the actual volume is different in the original recording and the users MIDI volume setting.
But velocity is only one factor for reading and/or setting nuances. Things like pitch bend, vibrato (usually via the mod wheel - CC1), slurs, trills, hammer ons and offs, etc, play a very important roll in making a MIDI track sound more realistic. If you are going to work in MIDI then you must learn some MIDI basics. It is a learning curve but not a very steep one.
I get most of my exercise these days from shaking my head in disbelief.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Good point Mario. When I indicated I was seeing velocity data for the BIAB drum midi, I did mean it was varied as though getting its values from a live player. It is possible in Reaper to examine all meta data associated with the file. So I will give this a closer look in the days to come to see if I can arrive at some conclusion. Certainly the MST Pianos should be the best candidate to see what is exactly being delivered under best conditions. I'll compare these to the regular midi charts with RTs and RDs.
In fact I just tried to start this process and the BIAB VST locked up on me. I am afraid BIAB is not quick to give up its secrets.
Here is a simple midi BIAB midi drums (not RD's). There is no meta data content besides midi note and velocity value. The velocity data looks to be automated.
All the PG Music piano RealTracks are supposed to be this way.
Thanks Matt. So, would that mean ALL RealTrack pianos? All the way back to the very first RealTracks? Or maybe just all of those after a certain time period?
Here is a typical BIAB MST Piano and a BIAB Piano RT chart. I will let you be the judge as to what to make of this or as to what may be hidden under the hood.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
Here is a typical BIAB MST Piano and a BIAB Piano RT chart. I will let you be the judge as to what to make of this or as to what may be hidden under the hood.
So, first, MST means MIDI Super Track?
Then, although I am not very familiar with what you are showing me I guess the first image has very limited and likely generated variances while the second one is much richer and fuller and likely the one played by a human and recorded on a digital piano. Is that correct?
One way is to open the midi file in Reaper and look to see if velocity data exists? It is either there or it is not. Otherwise, not sure...
BTW, Matt either has all these answers queued up in a database or he is a very fast typer.
Good idea but velocity data does not tell the entire picture. If there is a MIDI note then there will be a velocity. One problem is if all of the note velocities are the same then the initial volume and timbre could be the same. Another is if the actual volume is different in the original recording and the users MIDI volume setting.
But velocity is only one factor for reading and/or setting nuances. Things like pitch bend, vibrato (usually via the mod wheel - CC1), slurs, trills, hammer ons and offs, etc, play a very important roll in making a MIDI track sound more realistic. If you are going to work in MIDI then you must learn some MIDI basics. It is a learning curve but not a very steep one.
Thanks Mario! Is there a basic guide online you would recommend?
As Mario clarified for us, all midi will have some element of Velocity. I think this can, at minimum, represent tuning the note on and off and the resultant volume. The MST velocity is all over the place indicating a touch sensitive keyboard in the hands of a pianist who plays with soft and aggressive feeling. Also the MST (or SMT, whatever), records the player using the piano pedals to sustain and release. That is essentially the only meta data I see with the exception of some on and off elements.
The RT shows only velocity. I can't tell if it is programmed or played but I have a suspicion of the former. Again no other meta data on the track.
What does it all mean? Well it may explain why I long ago decided on only MSTs for my selections from BIAB when I need good midi piano. I suspect you may need to gather you own conclusions by listening.
As you can see some CCs are dedicated while others are open so each software program can use them as they see fit. Thus there are no basic guide lines other than the CC list.
Mapping an instrument's nuance can be challenging. For example a quick pitch bend up can be very effective on a sax or trumpet but not so much on an analog synth; it may want a slow long pitch bend. Also it may sound terrible using a pitch bend on a piano or organ!
Fortunately most newer softsynths have the nuances programmed in them via key switches; that is a MIDI note that is not in the range of the instrument. For example a violin patch could have key switches for various trills, legato, and such. Usually the more expensive the software the more key switches there are available.
I hope this isn't confusing.
{edit} PS there are a number of MIDI books available. I have these two:
Also, velocity is not volume, many confuse this. It is partly volume but what it actually does is change the timbre of an instrument depending on how hard the key, or string or drum is hit. Listen to a snare tapped lightly vs slamming it. That's velocity. Yes, it's also louder but the whole character of the snare is different. Same with piano. hit the key with full force you get an entirely different sound than you get by hitting the same key lightly. Expression is also commonly used instead of simple volume depending on the instrument.
Also, velocity is not volume, many confuse this. It is partly volume but what it actually does is change the timbre of an instrument depending on how hard the key, or string or drum is hit. Listen to a snare tapped lightly vs slamming it. That's velocity. Yes, it's also louder but the whole character of the snare is different. Same with piano. hit the key with full force you get an entirely different sound than you get by hitting the same key lightly. Expression is also commonly used instead of simple volume depending on the instrument.
Bob
That is definitely true for good more expensive MIDI sound sources. But with the GM sound source that comes with BiaB as well as many other sound sources, like other GMs and SF2s, the timbre will stay the same regardless of velocity. You would need layers of sounds/timbres per note and that is missing in inexpensive MIDI sounds. Unfortunately that is why many mistake velocity for volume.
I get most of my exercise these days from shaking my head in disbelief.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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