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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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I would like to continue to make progress using midi Tracks and Styles with BIAB.
I feel like I'm spending a lot of time and not getting a lot out of it.
Perhaps understanding the workflow of more experienced users using midi in BIAB and ultimately their DAW could help.
My objective is to use BIAB Midi(styles tracks) for making backing tracks that will allow me greater control of the tracks than just mixing in RealTracks.
I understand midi melody tracks. Don't need any help there
So, my beginners Styles and Tracks questions and thoughts are:
Can you briefly describe your workflow from BIAB to DAW?
Do you use only/mostly Midi styles in BIAB?
Do you use Midi instruments with Real Styles?
Do you use real instruments with Midi Styles?
If you mix and match midi and real tracks in BIAB, what is a typical example of what you do.
How do you normally transfer your midi files/tracks to your DAW.
Do you typically save Midi Drums from BIAB or do you use 3rd party drum products, or real Tracks?
Do you typically save Midi keyboard from BIAB or do you use 3rd party keyboard products, or real Tracks?
Do you typically save Midi bass from BIAB or do you use 3rd party bass products,, or real Tracks?
Once you have midi track(s) from biab in your DAW how do you used 3rd party tools like Toontrack ez line or JamStix, etc to modify the midi performance of a particular instrument
Any insight would be appreciated. I'm making some progress with midi on my own. It is an uphill climb and the urge to revert to Real Tracks is sucking my will to midi. Real Tracks and Real Styles provided a very high quality product for my needs
Thanks,
Geeze
biab2024(Mac) Latest Build
Mac OS Sequoia 15.0.1
Apple M2 pro 32GB Ram
Logic Pro 11
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So, my beginners Styles and Tracks questions and thoughts are:
Can you briefly describe your workflow from BIAB to DAW?
I figure out the chords and style in BiaB, open my DAW, click on the BiaB VSTi, then move the tracks to the DAW.
Do you use only/mostly Midi styles in BIAB?
I use mostly MIDI styles in BiaB.
Do you use Midi instruments with Real Styles?
I rarely use Real Styles but when I do then yes I have used MIDI instruments in them.
Do you use real instruments with Midi Styles?
On occasion yes.
If you mix and match midi and real tracks in BIAB, what is a typical example of what you do.
I generally move my MIDI tracks to my DAW, Studio One Pro 5, then come back to BiaB and select my realtracks. But with the new utility tracks I should be able to do all of that in BiaB prior to moving them to my DAW, I haven't had the time to play around much with 2021 BiaB.
How do you normally transfer your midi files/tracks to your DAW.
I save my BiaB file, open my DAW, add the VSTi, them move the tracks to my DAW. I do most of my work in my DAW and not in BiaB.
Do you typically save Midi Drums from BIAB or do you use 3rd party drum products, or real Tracks?
Its about 50/50. If the BiaB drum track fits I use it. But if not then I use mostly GrooveMonkee's MIDI drum loops. BUT in most cases I do modify the drum tracks to get exactly what I want, that is why I work mostly in MIDI.
Do you typically save Midi keyboard from BIAB or do you use 3rd party keyboard products, or real Tracks?
I mostly save it. Sometimes I will play the keyboard part or have a friend play the part. Again I do modify the part to get exactly what I want.
Do you typically save Midi bass from BIAB or do you use 3rd party bass products,, or real Tracks?
I either use the BiaB bass track or play the bass part myself. Again I do modify the MIDI bass parts.
Once you have midi track(s) from biab in your DAW how do you used 3rd party tools like Toontrack ez line or JamStix, etc to modify the midi performance of a particular instrument
Yes. In 99.99% of my songs have third party sounds in them and not GM sounds. And yes sometimes I use a third party program to modify a track and/or a section/measure of a track.
I work in MIDI because of the freedom it gives me. I have changed a piano to a harp, a guitar into a synth, changed notes, changed octaves, rewritten sections of a song, etc. I enjoy this freedom over cutting and pasting audio parts together to get what I want. BUT this is only my preference. YMMV
On a side note if someone wants me to record either their child or themselves I use RTs. I can quickly put together the song and have them sing along, much like karaoke. Sometimes it sounds great. Other times, well, not so much :-} And it isn't the RTs fault!
Edit - add color to my responses.
Last edited by MarioD; 12/09/20 10:39 AM.
Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer.
It's called the Heineken Maneuver.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Everything Mario said...
I work in Logic. Put the midi tracks in and then use my own instruments. Be aware that when you move the midi files into your daw there is 'hidden' info in the midi that makes using some instruments tricky. For instance, there is some info in the midi that makes it impossible for me to use my Korg Triton plug-in. The midi info overides whatever instrument I select and switches it back to whatever instrument the midi wanst... Sometimes you can get around this by opening the daw midi editor, selecting all the notes and then copy and paste all the notes into a new track.
Before dragging midi files into your daw, open the BIAB mixer window and set all panning to zero and all volume levels the same. This will make it easier to mix in your daw.
Once you have the midi in your daw you can edit notes, cut and paste, move parts about etc.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Chris, if I read you correctly all you have to do is to open the MIDI file in your DAW's MIDI editor and delete the program change, i.e. PG. Program changes are what determine what preset it will use and if your are using a non GM, like I use, then sometimes you have to do this. I think there is a flag in BiaB that will eliminate PGs but I'm not at my music computer right now.
Good luck.
Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer.
It's called the Heineken Maneuver.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Mario,
Thanks a million for the detailed response.
Significant help to me.
Not the first time you have helped. I do appreciate it.
I have worked a little with changing the "voice" on the track from whatever comes over from biab midi.
Usually it imports as some sampler instrument to my DAW. I have Kontakt and a bunch of libraries so I'm working with that now.
I've edited a few high octave piano passages or too splashy cymbals with the midi editor.
For my guitar I'm pretty old school analog. I use a telecaster, a vibrolux, a little reverb, a shure sm57 and as many takes as it requires. So thankful for track stacks and quick swipe comping.
I have not done any work to vary an entire biab midi performance with something like ezdrummer or ezkeys yet.
Baby steps at this point
Chris,
Thanks also. I too work in Logic on my Mac for my DAW but currently run BIAB win 2021. I resolve the disconnect through icloud. It works well enough. I may crossgrade to the Mac version if the DAW plugin reviews get a little more positive.
biab2024(Mac) Latest Build
Mac OS Sequoia 15.0.1
Apple M2 pro 32GB Ram
Logic Pro 11
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Can you briefly describe your workflow from BIAB to DAW?
I rarely, if ever transfer files to a DAW anymore but complete my projects within the BIAB program.
Do you use only/mostly Midi styles in BIAB?
I start nearly every project with a MIDI style to establish the groove or feel of my project song.
Do you use Midi instruments with Real Styles?
Yes, on practically every project.
Do you use real instruments with Midi Styles?
Yes, on practically every project.
If you mix and match midi and real tracks in BIAB, what is a typical example of what you do.
I use realistic sounding midi tracks and song specific riffs and I use RealTracks for foundation/rhythm instruments and soloists.
How do you normally transfer your midi files/tracks to your DAW.
Normally don't.
Do you typically save Midi Drums from BIAB or do you use 3rd party drum products, or real Tracks?
Almost always RealDrums unless I'm doing a MIDI cover that has specific, unique and identifiable drums. Then I find a high end midi file that has duplicated the drums of the original song if possible.
Do you typically save Midi keyboard from BIAB or do you use 3rd party keyboard products, or real Tracks?
I have access to a high end keyboardist to create unique or hard to find MIDI files for songs.
Do you typically save Midi bass from BIAB or do you use 3rd party bass products,, or real Tracks?
I have access to a high end keyboardist to create unique or hard to find MIDI files for songs.
Once you have midi track(s) from biab in your DAW how do you used 3rd party tools like Toontrack ez line or JamStix, etc to modify the midi performance of a particular instrument ?
No.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Thanks for posting this info Mario. I'm trying to transition from BIAB into Cakewalk using my MIDI system using the BIAB VSTi. Your workflow steps help a lot.
Jeff
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2025, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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I'm glad that I could help. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask.
Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer.
It's called the Heineken Maneuver.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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My workflow is simple.
1. I used BB as my writing tool. Key, tempo, style, structure.
2. I open the BB file in Real band and add additional tracks that I want but were not in the BB style.
3. I import all the tracks into Sonar X1 and add my live tracks for guitar, keys, mandolin, and whatever else I need plus vocals.
4. All mixing and sweetening and polishing is done in Sonar and exported as a wave.
5. I use Wavepad Music Editor to normalize, trim and and convert the wave file to MP3.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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GuitarHacker,
Do you use any midi tracks ?
Do you find the expanded utility tracks on biab 2021 obviates the need for RB in your workflow?
biab2024(Mac) Latest Build
Mac OS Sequoia 15.0.1
Apple M2 pro 32GB Ram
Logic Pro 11
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