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You got a lot of suggestions. And quite a few of them were full of hot air. Hopefully that stuck with you. He has to blow from his gut, and hard. Not from his chest, but his lower gut. Good trumpet players can take a heck of a belly punch.. just don't hit us in the mouth or we cry like babies. Mostly when we try to play afterwards. 
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Thanks Jally, you did not say anything wrong. I think you hit the nail on the head. The process sounds like something they really need to work on in order to begin to bring it to the table. I thought it would be something I could point to him as I would a guitarist when I tell them, "play it as an arpeggio here." This sounds like there is a lot more to it than that. Well, I have another reason to truly appreciate you trumpters! I love that sound. And now I know it is not as easy as it "sounds." Mac, I will certainly share that with him! I am laughing as I write this. I never thought in asking a note to be played would require that sort of effort!  And situps. That would be another issue. He is not the most healthiest guy in the bunch. If I asked him to do sit ups, he may never get up. Ed, I am pasting your comments to give to him to research. Again, I just want to encourage the guy the best way I know how. He wants to sound his best. But, without any experienced teacher nearby as a resource he has not had the skills taught to him. I suppose you can scour the internet for good articles. I have as a guitarist. But if it were not for my initial one on one instructors, all of the stuff on the internet would be just a data dump. Thanks Gents! I appreciate your expertise and counsel. RickeG
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Quote:
I know the sax guy is Justo Almer... and the bassist is Abraham Labriolo. Both are considered the top shelf in their individual craft. I don't know the trumpet player however. That is how it goes on a lot of Ron's bands; best musicians... annonymous names.
Yes, these are two heavy hitters. Justo Almario was at Berklee with my brother in the mid-1960s. The bassist is Abraham Laboriel. With the right spelling, you can look them up.
I listened to a 30-second excerpt of this tune on Amazon, and then a YouTube video. Nice music. Either of these would give your trumpeter a very good idea of articulation.
It did sound and look like Justo Almario playing the alto sax solo, assuming this was recorded in the 1970s.
There are at least five horns shown. The lead trumpet plays high Ds consistently, and then they modulate up a step and it's several high Es . This part would definitely push even a pro player, especially if it were only three horns where the high trumpet would stand out more (in church, no less). For example, that's about as high as I ever play when playing lead in a theater show score.
It gets worse.
On the video, the lead trumpet hits a bunch of Gs over high C, and then As when they modulate. That's something I would not even attempt. There's only a few dozen people in the world who could have played that part as well as he did on the video, so I agree with you, this is another ringer. At least these notes are doubled by the other trumpet down an octave, which is probably where the part is written.
I repeat, if you can pull this off, you are in one hip church. Best of luck.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Thanks for the spelling correction. I hope some of the folks here who play these particular instruments would give them a search on the web. You will be pleasantly surprised by their style. Matt, actually the recordings came from the late 90's. I reckon what you are suggesting is I was asking of my trumpeter to play what only 5 guys in the whole world can play! Again, something I needed to learn. Too funny. What I like about Ron's music is that it is usually equally as challenging both musically as well as theologically. In church music, in many cases you often sacrifice the one for the other. But I am glad you took the time to explain to me from a horn player's perspective what is going on. I don't feel so bad any longer about not being able to achieve that sound. And I guess I can tell him to stop doing the sit ups! Thanks, RickeG
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Oh no, don't tell him to stop the sit-ups; he doesn't need to know what you know, and you're having too much fun!
If that video really was in the late 90s, Justo Almario must have lost weight and dyed his hair. He looked good.
I didn't mean to discourage you at all! It's one thing to play the articulation, and quite another to get way up high and do it there. My guess is that your trumpet part is written an octave down from what you hear by the guy playing screamer trumpet. It's hard to hear, but the other trumpet is probably doubling by playing it as written. Take out the few screamer parts and I could handle that part just fine, although it would still be a small challenge to hit the high Es early in the morning. Just to be sure, can you show me the trumpet part? Scan it to a PDF?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Not discouraged at all. Thanks Matt. As a guitarist, you tell me to play a high E, I can either bend the E string at the last fret of the guitar, or strike a harmonic and I got it. No harm. No foul. One of the many features I have enjoyed from this discussion board is the experience of those who play other instruments beyond the scope of bass, guitar, piano, & drums. It's funny, because you would have had to have seen the expression on the guy's face when I told him he could do it if he did situps. With your perspective I have come to understand why he now thinks I come from Mars. Being he has the charts, I do not have a copy. But, I don't recall seeing any notation on the chart that represented say an "8va" for example. We just had the audio track and the chart. As for Justo's appearance I would need to see the video you saw. The tracks were pulled from albums called, "God is Able" (Resound in Praise) released in 1994, and "Lift Him Up" released 1997. These three men: Ron, Justo, and Abraham are great contributors to music at large.
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I would have liked to have seen that moment (the situps). Usually, it's the trumpet players who are from Mars, not the other way around. They are not seriously marketing a commercial chart with As over high C in it. It must be written down an octave. This is the video I watched: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XI3iVIQoqVw
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Quote:
If you want to get a better idea of how trumpet and trombone articulations work, check out any chart by Sammy Nestico, and then get the audio files of these charts played by any of the great big bands>Count Basie, Duke Ellington, Woody Herman, Stan Kenton, Buddy Rich, Maynard Ferguson, Rob McConnell, etc.
Ditto ... Oh, and don't forget that any one of these will likely have free MP3's and charts to go with 'em on the net. FREE!
From my perspective, your trumpeter won't get the idea of what you're asking him to do because you verbally describe it -- It just won't happen with this guy. But, YOU should be using the tools that are readily available to you to help him understand! He will NEVER get a better idea about what you want from him than for you to simply make him 'listen' to a lick from any one of the guys in this list above. And don't ask him if he's heard this tune or that -- he's not listening!
I say, find what you expect of him by listening for it yourself (find an old tune you've heard this trumpet 'punch' played before). Now record that lick to your tape or MP3 player. Go crank your amplifier up good so everyone in the room can hear what's happening. Now play it! Before him, his peers and God himself, keep playing it ... Good and loud and at least three times over! Now hand him a CD with that lick on it -- There, your trumpeter has no excuse for not learning what you (and his peers) expect from him.
I guarantee you this ... the guy will not misunderstand you any more -- Sometimes his problem might be for lack of understanding, but maybe this guy's been playing second or third part way too long! He's gotten lazy! If for no other reason than for fear of being reminded by his peers, he WILL punch those notes -- IF you show him what you mean in front of the band! Do you remember challenge day in high-school? What did it teach you? Did you play your very best in front of your peers? Did you play your very best when you were nervous? Did it give you confidence? You bet it did! Mr. 'no-punch' will learn what you mean and he'll never play wall-flower trumpet again!
I might be wrong, but somehow it seems that at least a generation of musicians have managed to escape listening to their jazz forefathers ... I was originally taught jazz by my grandfather (a Vaudeville and jazz big-band pianist turned concert pianist). I learned more from Grandpa because of what I 'heard' from him than what he 'spoke' to me. In my day what you're describing here simply wouldn't have been an issue. That 'punch' was built-in. It was a key element of the big-band sound. A trumpeter then would have automatically known how to do this before knowing how to play his first scale -- Because he would have tried to emulate the 'sound' he'd been hearing day in and day out. Did you EVER hear Dizzy or Louis NOT blow the doors off when it was time for it?
My first jazz band director had some ideas about a weak trumpet section -- our 'Beasts of the Back Row' ... He'd say, "When I ask you to 'carry articulation' I am telling you that I expect you to punch the Brill-Cream out of my hair! The next time you play it, I wanna' fall off this podium"
Teach by example my friend, and you'll never go wrong. And if you can't play it yourself, who better to ask him to emulate than the likes of a Miles Davis, Arturo Sandoval, Red Allen, or Maynard Ferguson? Let him pick one if he wants!
Ike
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