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Songwriting
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Joined: Aug 2011
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... Nothing more than a sheet of paper is needed to write a song if you are a highly trained and skilled musician. ... Billy A pen or pencil helps!  Sorry Billy, I couldn't resist.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Songwriting
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,216
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... Nothing more than a sheet of paper is needed to write a song if you are a highly trained and skilled musician. ... Billy A pen or pencil helps! Sorry Billy, I couldn't resist. You forgot about my most used tool the undo, I mean eraser 
Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer.
It's called the Heineken Maneuver.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Joined: Apr 2020
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I believe that if you like it and you're proud of what you created, that's all that matters. Music should be a audio representation of you and your emotions. Let a couple of your friends listen to it and see how they feel cause yes constructive criticism is great but again, make music for you.
That's my two cents! Bad advice, probably :P Couldn't agree more!! That's EXACTLY what I subscribe to. I make music for me. If someone likes it fine. if they don't that's also fine. As far as critics I could care less.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Dec 2003
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I believe that if you like it and you're proud of what you created, that's all that matters. Music should be a audio representation of you and your emotions. Let a couple of your friends listen to it and see how they feel cause yes constructive criticism is great but again, make music for you.
That's my two cents! Bad advice, probably :P Couldn't agree more!! That's EXACTLY what I subscribe to. I make music for me. If someone likes it fine. if they don't that's also fine. As far as critics I could care less. That makes three of us who feel the same way.
Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer.
It's called the Heineken Maneuver.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Songwriting
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,814
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Joined: Aug 2011
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When it's a song you're looking forwarding to revisiting six months from now and you know you'll still like it.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Songwriting
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,703
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If I could find my pen I would write you guys a note but...
If I go back and listen to a song I recorded ten or fifteen years ago and I still really like it then it was a good song but perhaps only to me.
I have a few CDs in my truck, 90% are my own recordings. I like recording and creating music. Some of the crap I have created was as much fun as the good stuff.
It is none of my business what you think of my songs. If you get to hear them and they please you wonderful. If they irritate you change the channel...lol
Well, at least I now know why I had so much trouble getting songs down on paper...lol
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Songwriting
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Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 15
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Joined: Jan 2021
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Hi
Just my thoughts
- the lyrics one writes are like brush strokes of your paint brush carefully following the direction of your emotional thoughts on a painters canvas telling a story with each colorful stroke of the brush
- every word you write tells a story from the heart
- when your song has a home in your heart you have a song
- if writing lyrics come easy for you, you have talent
- the connection of the song with the performer enlightens the 7 colors of the rainbow
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Songwriting
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 24
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Roger, I see you are associated with NSAI so I'll give my take and see if you agree.
I joined NSAI back in 2017 and spent the first year sending in my songs for evaluation and I was disappointed when all of the feedback was about unclear lyrics and dated melodies. Once I got over the initial shock I started to incorporate their input into my songs and, lo and behold, the quality of my songs started to improve. By the time 2020 rolled I was able to pen 9 "One to Watch" songs as designated by NSAI evaluators. Does that mean I'm a pro songwriter? Of course not, but since my goal has always been to have others record my songs I knew that had to appeal to today's market, which I am getting better at. Regardless of whether a publsiher ever picks up one of my songs or not, I can say I am enjoying much more success (and the entire process as well) now then before NSAI. Hey Dewey, I joined NSAI back on Jan 1 of this year. I agree, NSAI is a great resource. The videos from the pros alone are worth the price of admission. I am very curious to hear how you are using BIAB in your process, and checked out your page at NSAI as well as your Sound Cloud page! I live in Jax, but just affiliated with your Mid-Michigan chapter!
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Songwriting
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,381
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Expert
Joined: Aug 2018
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If I may, I'll add a bit more. I "know" it's a good song when it fills the space in my head not taken up by what MUST be thought about. When I "hear" it walking to the market or pulling weeds. When I'll miss a meal to work on it. When my wife thinks I *might* have a mistress because there's a little extra spark there.
And if the song isn't "good", at least that feeling is.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,753
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Expert
Joined: Mar 2004
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You'll know you've written a good song when people are singing it at Karaoke night.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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Songwriting
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 15,395
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When sources beyond the usual circle of family and close friends tell you it’s good. Our best source of affirmation has been highly respected forum members and licenses. FWIW.
Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 2,703
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What Bud said reminded me of one of my best sources of affirmation.
A young lady gave me a five dollar food stamp as a tip in a juke joint in South Central LA. It very possibility could have been the only thing she had of value. Ment more to me than dealing with Bruce Iglauer.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Songwriting
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 63
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Joined: May 2018
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You know you have written a good song when you play it and sing it live and it gives you cold chills.
And you know you have written a good song when you perform it and people are crying around you.
C.Dan
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Songwriting
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 745
Journeyman
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Joined: Oct 2017
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Goodness yes!
A friend released a song that included the line "I cannot imagine life without you in it." My sister and I went to see him that day play at a local bar. I brought her along because her husband went missing 3 days before and thought she could use some cheering up. (Husband's body was found a year later.)
When he sang that song it was heart wrenching.
Yes, it is a good song and a great line.
...Deb
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Songwriting
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,811
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
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When sources beyond the usual circle of family and close friends tell you it’s good. Our best source of affirmation has been highly respected forum members and licenses. FWIW.
Bud Yep. The affirmation of family and friends is meaningless to me as to whether or not a song is any good. They'll always be nice so that cannot be trusted. I never announce my own songs unless a showcase where I'm supposed to talk about them. If they stand up to the rest of the material I'm doing, I'll know soon enough.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile Mac
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Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
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Songwriting
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It's been a few years ago now.... maybe 6 or so. I don't play out live much anymore since the last band I was in, a house band, broke up. A few years in a church band, a couple of backyard BBQ jams.... but really nothing much to speak of. I spend my energy and time here, in the studio, writing and recording. A few years ago.... I was invited to participate in a songwriter event by a friend who knew that I wrote and recorded. Several other writers and singers where there and the deal was we got to sing a couple of our creations and the others would jam along if they felt capable of following something they didn't know. This is one of the songs I selected to play that evening. Footsteps in the Hall I don't think anyone followed along, choosing instead to simply listen. At the end of the set, a big burly guy came up to me and told me that the song about the footsteps in the hall, hit a place in his heart and it made him shed a tear. I think, that's probably as good of a compliment as one can expect.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 309
Journeyman
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No offense guys but I think I'm in my own lane on this one. It seems like a lot of folks in the forum think a "good" song is a "Sad" song. In my view nothing is further from the truth. I think a good song is a song that resonates with the audience. Generates a "connection" whether that be Happy, Sad, Argumentative, introspective, etc... When you've written a song where the listener sings the "Hook" subconsciously as it's playing. Not the verse but the hook. There are lots of uptempo songs that are GREAT songs played worldwide. Think Earth Wind, Fire, Chicago, Hall and Oates, etc... Those musicians still generate thousands in royalties every year because they make folks feel good when they hear them. And "NO Pianobilly, I respectably disagree. I think you need more than a pencil and paper and musical education to write a good song. That may work in your genre but there are lots of genres where its just not the case. Some songs are great because of the drum beat, guitar riff, horn section, etc.. and of course if the song is vocal driven nothing makes a song resonate like a great vocal performance. You can have the best lyrics in the world (which few listeners really care about) but if the vocal stinks the song stinks. That's just sad but true. There's that old American Bandstand adage ... "It's got a good beat and you can dance to it" :-) I have a song that's trending worldwide on iTunes, Deezer, and Amazon and Spotify right now. It's not BIAB. The vocals are flat and not balanced, the mix is average, the song is a bit silly but it's resonating purely because of the hook and the positive energy. I've received a lot of great comments. I thought the song was ok but audiences are connecting and telling me they think it's pretty good. http://itunes.apple.com/album/id1454291240?ls=1&app=ituneshttps://www.amazon.com/Roll-With-It/dp/B...lMMIbLzEEbkZmywhttps://open.spotify.com/track/4ZVYqEGzUOJTgGyOcWEE6q?si=4a1f8327225c4f3bBecause of the response I "think" I've written a good song :-) Hope this message doesn't rub anyone the wrong way. It's just an opinion from another perspective.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 40
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Hi there!
I know through my gut feeling. Failsafe method for me. I am a very intuitive person anyway but when I get that certain feeling of a deep, deep satisfaction down in my belly/solar plexus, then I know I have written a good song. I just instinctively know it's finished and it's worth while. If I don't have that feeling, the song never sees the light of day or is re-worked until "it" happens.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,499
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I think your absolute sure when you standing on stage accepting a small object that looks strangely like a shiny disc. Muttering the words “ I’d like to thank....”
Just saying!
Oh and Herb I have to point out that you my old friend have written several very nice song. I have really enjoyed listening to your work as it progressed through the years.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,335
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No offense guys but I think I'm in my own lane on this one. It seems like a lot of folks in the forum think a "good" song is a "Sad" song. In my view nothing is further from the truth. I think a good song is a song that resonates with the audience. Generates a "connection" whether that be Happy, Sad, Argumentative, introspective, etc... When you've written a song where the listener sings the "Hook" subconsciously as it's playing. Not the verse but the hook. There are lots of uptempo songs that are GREAT songs played worldwide. Think Earth Wind, Fire, Chicago, Hall and Oates, etc... Those musicians still generate thousands in royalties every year because they make folks feel good when they hear them. And "NO Pianobilly, I respectably disagree. I think you need more than a pencil and paper and musical education to write a good song. That may work in your genre but there are lots of genres where its just not the case. Some songs are great because of the drum beat, guitar riff, horn section, etc.. and of course if the song is vocal driven nothing makes a song resonate like a great vocal performance. You can have the best lyrics in the world (which few listeners really care about) but if the vocal stinks the song stinks. That's just sad but true. There's that old American Bandstand adage ... "It's got a good beat and you can dance to it" :-) I have a song that's trending worldwide on iTunes, Deezer, and Amazon and Spotify right now. It's not BIAB. The vocals are flat and not balanced, the mix is average, the song is a bit silly but it's resonating purely because of the hook and the positive energy. I've received a lot of great comments. I thought the song was ok but audiences are connecting and telling me they think it's pretty good. http://itunes.apple.com/album/id1454291240?ls=1&app=ituneshttps://www.amazon.com/Roll-With-It/dp/B...lMMIbLzEEbkZmywhttps://open.spotify.com/track/4ZVYqEGzUOJTgGyOcWEE6q?si=4a1f8327225c4f3bBecause of the response I "think" I've written a good song :-) Hope this message doesn't rub anyone the wrong way. It's just an opinion from another perspective. The funny thing Henry is.... I went to a songwriting forum in LA back in 2009 I think it was....it was put on by TAXI and it's done yearly. It's called the Rode Rally and one of the things they did in one of the many classes there was to examine the hit, meaning #1 songs of the past year. They broke them down by tempo, key, topic etc.... to get a feel for what the people were listening to and liking, so that we as writers had a better idea what we should be writing. For years, I've heard it said.... you need to write uptempo happy songs. Stay away from the sad slow stuff and especially the ballads. Don't write ballads because no one wants to sing them or listen to them. Well, this survey decided that the majority of the last years #1 hits for that year were in fact over 50% ballads and a number of those were sad songs.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
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