Originally Posted By: Cathie
Demo 8 really flows well!

Thanks! It does flow well, but I think it would flow a little better with a more gradual tempo increase into the bridge. So, I decided to try only increasing the tempo from 100 bpm to 104 bpm and to only increase it by 1 bpm every other measure instead of in four consecutive measures. Doing this resulted in a very similar slight tempo increase for the bridge but in such a slow, subtle way that no one would ever hear it unless I were to tell them.

However, that's not the only shortcoming I noticed with Demo #8. After listening to it numerous times, I realized that the fingerpicking guitars weren't audible enough because they were too close to the center. So, I tried moving them farther away from the center than BiaB's default setting of +40 and -40. This made a huge difference in the sound of both guitars and in the overall sound of the entire arrangement. As a result of this improvement, I created another demo video and uploaded it to my Youtube channel. You can listen to it at the following link:

Demo #9 https://youtu.be/02v4CWXcXzE

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Thank you for letting me be part of your process. As always, feel free to disregard the unsolicited advice which follows. **smile**

You're welcome, but I need to thank you for suggesting that I try triplets for the vocals in my bridge instead of a tempo and time signature change. Going through this process was a huge learning experience for me, so I really appreciate your input as well as everyone else's input on my song in this forum.

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In our society, the 3 minute song has become a convention. Going against that convention takes a pretty strong belief in one's song. I'm sharing a quote with you because I think it applies here. "...you should trust your instincts, and believe in yourself, as all the successful artists have had to do at some stage in their careers." Michael Eaton, 2016

Eternity is a marvelous contemplative meditational song, and I believe it has value at a slower tempo. . . . My question is this. Why not, given the strength of your BIAB arrangement, simply have your singer record it at your tempo and create a BIAB song with it? Why not release it as a single? Put it on Spotify, tag it Christian, tag it Jesus, maybe tag it meditation, talk it up with your friends, link it on Facebook or Instagram, see if you can get a lot of plays.

I agree with you 100%. Otherwise, I would have given in to my producer's recommendations a long time ago and wouldn't have even bothered to post my "Tempo change conundrum" question in this forum. I also wouldn't have decided that I intend to release my full-length BiaB arrangement version at some future date after I've released my album version but with a different vocalist who would be interested in singing his or her own "cover" version of this song.

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I've sped the youtube up to 125 bpm to see how your producer hears it, and it becomes upbeat rather than contemplative. There's a place for both in Christian music, but if you had to argue over it for four hours, it's obvious your producer doesn't really like the song.

I wouldn't say that he doesn't "like" it because he did tell me a few days ago that it's a good song. Instead, I'd say that he doesn't like it at the tempo of 100 bpm that I chose for the song because he thinks it's too slow and boring---especially because of how long the song is (6:25) due to the fact that it has three verses and a double chorus at the end. Second, he didn't like my Demo #5 version with the tempo change on the bridge or how the bridge ended with the instruments held before the tempo dropped back down again. Third, he didn't like the similarity between the chord resolution of each line of the verses to the chord resolution of each line of the verses in another song that will be on my album. Fourth, he said that it's just a conventional song that is comparable to hundreds if not thousands of other songs that have been written since the mid-40s. Furthermore, he said that no one writes songs like this anymore and that the only people who will like listening to this song are mostly old people who have a fond memory of similar songs from the past. Simply put, he said that this is a traditional song that needs to have a traditional length of around 4:00-4:30. This is another reason why he wants to increase the tempo to 120 bpm. However, he also wants to slow down the drums and the guitars so that the song doesn't sound rushed like it did when you increased my demo to 125 on Youtube. In fact, he created a one-verse demo of this song in his studio to demonstrate what he has in mind for this song. So, I decided to create a video version of his demo that I also uploaded to my Youtube channel so that I could share it with you and others on this forum. You can listen to it at the following link:

https://youtu.be/3X1cUktjLiM

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Now for a purely technical notation comment on the melody line to make the music easier for your singer to understand. At bar 87 where the triplets start, that should be all quarter notes like it was before. That's what Eleanor is singing (quarter note triplets) so far as I can tell. Bars 88, 90, and 92 should not be triplets at all, but a half note followed by a quarter rest and two even eighth notes--again, that's what Eleanor is singing. Bar 95 is just a half note. You're bouncing back and forth between swing and straight, and that's very good, part of the charm of the song--it's a really common jazz/swing convention that makes a melody flow in a lovely way.

I know that the notation on my lead sheet in the video of my demo isn't exactly correct because the triplets symbol over the measure is only supposed to be used for three quarter notes, but I had to do it this way for consistency sake and to save myself a lot of time that I would have spent switching back and forth between triplets mode and non-triplets mode. The only other way I could have made it clear how the lyrics are supposed to be sung was to change the tempo to 159 and the time signature to 3/4. This is what I did in Synthesizer V so that Eleanor would sing all the words the way they're supposed to be sung. Here's a link to a video I made of her doing this:

https://youtu.be/p1nd7GBKTiA

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If you do decide to shorten the song, you might consider removing a verse and a chorus to do so without changing the tempo; you could combine verses, since you have repeated lines that could be repurposed. I have longer songs myself and when I first started squeezing them down to meet the 3.5 minute standard it really hurt, felt totally wrong, but I learned to combine the verses and eliminate some time that way. I also experimented with changing the tempo by just 5 beats, reather than by 20 beats, to keep the easy flow of my songs but shave off time (you might not need the tempo increase at the bridge if you try this). Intros and outros can also be shaved down. The song itself is complete at the end of the chorus; your coda is lovely but to me the change in melody and lyrics took away from the feeling of completion. Again, this is unsolicited so feel free to disregard it; you might be better served by having one chorus at the end and only repeating the last line ("How I long for eternity") if you wish to shorten the song and keep the mood. Or you might to decide to keep the coda but only play one chorus.

Lots of options for shortening the song... but here's the thing, Tom. Your song has a specific purpose and you've crafted the lyrics and melody to fit that purpose. Like Mr. Eaton says, "at some point, you have to believe in yourself." Maybe the audience who will love your song is waiting on Spotify or even in a local church. You won't know until you release it.

I do believe in myself and I do believe in this song. Consequently, I plan to release multiple versions of it at different tempos and lengths. The version my producer will be creating for my album will be about 4:45 in length. I'm also thinking of following David Snyder's suggestion to create a version that is around 3:15-3:30 in length by only having two verses and only one chorus at the end. (I've already created a lead sheet of this version at 124 bpm.) Plus, today I realized that I could change three words in the first verse to make a male-female relationship version of this song in addition to the current version. So, I have lots of options, and I intend to explore them all and will continue this discussion for as long as necessary to accomplish this. Thanks for being a part of it.

Tom Levan (pronounced La-VAN)
BiaB 2024 Win UltraPAK Build 1109, Xtra Style PAKs 1-11, RB 2024, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Intel Q9650 3 GHz, 16 GB RAM, 500 GB SSD & 2 TB HDD, Tracktion 6 & 7 (freebies), Cakewalk, Audacity, MuseScore 2.1 & 3.4, Synthesizer V