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i'm curious. you said you moved from ardour to reaps.
what aspects of reaps do you like over ardour ? I moved from Ardour to Mixbus as at the time Mixbus had some features I wanted that Ardour didn't have ... i can't now remember what. I'd liked the style of Reaper for some time, but wasn't then going to go down the Wine path ... for a long time, Wine had too many gotchas. It's now mostly remarkably good. I eventually changed to Reaper after it went Linux-native and at a time when Mixbus had become rather temperamental. I think it's stable again now. yep harrison nice consoles…big lad stuff. Mixbus is software and pretty reasonable. We're talking $150 dollars rather than thousands. Mixmus32 is around $400. (they both show UKP for me). Those are neat! 12V power, so they have an external power brick to go with what you see.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Matt/Gordon/All.
(i'm sure gordon knows lots of this stuff, but some people perusing these forums might find it interesting. ) Hmm ... first things first ... I don't go out of my way to to keep up with what's happening in linux audio, or indeed in most of the areas I have worked over the years. Electronics and software just move too fast to try to cover everything. I know lots of stuff about radio systems, but only a little of that is still useful. i thought that a distro with a low latency kernel is very important…logically…
for music production. but a recent linux post i saw from a linux user/tech suggested that
actually this is not necessarily true…so i'm confused gordon. I think as things get quicker and quicker, kernel latency becomes less of an issue. No so long ago, a real-time kernel was re-riguer for audio, now it's less often used. Real-time kernels have their own issues. I suspect that a low-latency kernel is still of benefit, but it must be pretty marginal by now. I can get ping times over Ethernet within my home network well below 1ms. That's a low-latency kernel on this machine to my hub and (old) printer. I get sub 2ms over thew WiFi link to my auto-backup machine, which is an old ITX board with an Ethernet/WiFi adaptor. Older class USB interfaces can't do better that 2ms, but newer ones can. Many years ago I was introduced to "Bernstein's Law": "It ain't necessarily so". I try to keep it almost constantly in mind, because it applies to so much we read, hear, and think we know. There's good advice here, though there are many ways to do things. On older laptop I had to turn off WiFi to get consistent performance ... on my newer one (around 2012, I suspect), I don't. Setting CPU to "performance" helps to avoid speed changes due to economy modes or heat, though if heat is an issue, deal with that directly. I try to have enough RAM that the PC doesn't even try to swap ... swapping costs time and also makes things inconsistent. My swap at present is zero, but I'm uncertain if it's feasible to get a history ... this is only a 8GM memory machine, but my new machine will probably be 32GB. To be honest, I think many of the things suggested are mostly relevant if things aren't already fast enough. The things to balance mostly are latency against XRUNs, the latter indicate a failure to service a request on time. Often you can see XRUNs before you can hear there's a problem. note i saw some people on reaps forum seem to be getting low 2.5 ms latency using linux… using a behr umc interface.... Some people just enjoy the process of tweaking. If it were me I wouldn't expect, or likely wouldn't even try, to get that low ... sub 10ms is enough for most purposes. And life is short. There are several items in the 'non' toolset. It'll have moved on some from when I last used it and I'm not sure if I ever tried the DAW. The session-manager is interesting, though there are many ways to do things. I just used a start-up script on my previous system, which used to set up six desktops with various applications opened on specific desktops, so I could jump very quickly between mixer, DAW, qjackctl + patch-panel + a synthesiser, file manager, pdf-reader and so on. A DAW on a Raspberry Pi would be quite interesting and impressive, and someone here ran BiaB in an ARM-based Win-11 on one too, but just because it can be done doesn't necessarily make it a good idea. There's horsepower aplenty on a PC, significantly less on a Raspberry Pi.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Gordon.
thanks for your comments….includeing kernel…etc
i'm trying not to be reaper biased as i'm a reaps win user…but would you say reaps is the best solution on linux and PI ? based on your experiences. ?
anything better than reaps ?
i'm hoping the next iteration of PI will be more powerful.
cos of my concern re plug ins resource usage.
the PI at least is dirt cheap , so worst case not a big loss if things dont work out.
i also have a 5 yr old i5 laptop here ..to try linux with. 2.5ghz. cpu. its been a champ.
i WAS gonna gonna jump into a new desktop for daw work eg there are decent deals on various dell desktops eg xps…but as there are exciting things happenin re usb 4…
(i think usb 4 is gonna be 60gps...wowser.)
and a newer pcie 5 and 6 with new processors intel 13th generation and amd zen i'm sorta on the fence. super duper speed increases are coming…sigh... yep i know gotta jump in at some point. .
best/happiness
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 09/07/22 01:10 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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(i think usb 4 is gonna be 60gps...wowser.) It's 40, same as Thunderbolt 3 but does not need to be certified by Intel which means that you are at the mercy of whatever components are being used. This is already an issue as many are finding out. Thunderbolt is rock solid by comparison. Thunderbolt 4 allows multiple TB3 devices on one port through a hub or daisy-chain and brings other TB3 features to Windows. So called "thunderbolt compatible" is a marketing term and means nothing. USB 4.1 is expected to be 80Gb/s but the spec is just now being proposed. It's not expected to be finished till mid-'23 and nothing will likely ship before 2024.
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i'm trying not to be reaper biased as i'm a reaps win user…but would you say reaps is the best solution on linux and PI ? based on your experiences. ?
anything better than reaps ? The quickest route from one place to another is the route you know best. All DAWs and much software generally moves on, overtake and are then overtaken, or they fade away. These things take time and effort to learn. I tend to stay with what I use today until I see an imperative to change to something else. For most things I do in life, I have a collection of tools that I can apply to the needs of the day and each appropriate for a different class of task. As a design engineer, every job I did was at least partially new ... the very least change would be to reduce costs or improve performance. There are only so many new things I can learn at any one time. Similar is true of BiaB and DAWs and sequencers. They're all quite complex, so whilst change can be good and important, change for its own sake can be bad. Never be afraid of change, but also judge carefully the value of any change. i'm hoping the next iteration of PI will be more powerful.
cos of my concern re plug ins resource usage.
the PI at least is dirt cheap , so worst case not a big loss if things dont work out.
i also have a 5 yr old i5 laptop here ..to try linux with. 2.5ghz. cpu. its been a champ. I'm really impressed with what Raspberry Pi's can do but they don't have the horsepower of proper PC. Don't forget either, that they're an ARM processor, not an x86 derivative. Do try one if it appeals, but don't be surprised if you find it doesn't perform as well as you'd hoped. My most powerful machine is a five-years-old i5, though it's slightly faster at 3GHz. i WAS gonna gonna jump into a new desktop for daw work eg there are decent deals on various dell desktops eg xps…but as there are exciting things happenin re usb 4…
(i think usb 4 is gonna be 60gps...wowser.)
and a newer pcie 5 and 6 with new processors intel 13th generation and amd zen i'm sorta on the fence. super duper speed increases are coming…sigh... yep i know gotta jump in at some point. . There will be a still faster set of parts just over the horizon. In my electronics trade stuff, I've recently been seeing a lot about 6G cellular and WiFi 7. I'll not wait; they'll be expensive and patchy at initial release anyway. Here's a thing ... in the past I've tended to buy at the lower end of the top quartile, which is where I reckon the best bang-for-buck tends to lie. I'm now looking rather lower than that because to get into that top quartile now means using the 'turbo' range of the main processors and that means heat and noise. I'm still planning i5-11 for my new machine as it'll run close to silent, but will still have plenty of performance. Also, with energy costs here skyrocketing, a lower energy machine makes more economic sense. I look at some of the gaming machines and the "I get 150fps" posts. Impressive. It's just a shame our eyes are incapable of seeing that rate.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Gordon. goodness your good. all excellent points. yep i always have stayed behind the tech curve. its just gear lust often for more processing power…lol…but of course the cost is the increased heat due to that higher power (due to the laws of physics ). … as well as the money cost. some of these processor prices are getting silly….especially as tech gets rapidly obsolete. one of my brilliant uk physics profs had a great saying ive remembered all my life… 'a problem (bulge) pops out on the surface of a balloon in one area..and you think as a tech/engr youve been very very smart in solving THAT…only for the problem to pop out (bulge)..in another part of the balloon ' ! …we have 5ghz processors…but there are negatives. this is why i think the i3 12300 is a nice compromise for music production… cheap and powerful…unless one goes 'bonkers;' on resource heavy plug ins. (one reason i love reaps is the resource stats built in.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rNcqZJ0RLEThe narrator is from the UK . i figured if intel lost biz due to the apple silicon there would be a response from intel with lower cost processors…eg i3 12300…and i'm betting there will be more interesting lower cost processors coming from amd too. Mike. much as with my tech background i like the 'm' range silicon processors. (and i laud apple for this strategic step) i wanna see how they handle thermals/laws of physics etc as they move up in processing power. eg m3//m4//m4// etc etc i'd love a 'cheesegrater' but i cant afford one due to family commitments. the mini needs more ports/upgradeability. best om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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this is why i think the i3 12300 is a nice compromise for music production…
cheap and powerful…unless one goes 'bonkers;' on resource heavy plug ins.
(one reason i love reaps is the resource stats built in.) I wrote a longer reply, but allowed Firefox to reboot in the middle and lost it. Doh! The i3-12300 and my candidate i5-11600 compare reasonably closely on PassMark. Perhaps the arbiter might be that the i3-12300 is socket 1700, while the 10s and 11s are socket 1200, which perhaps approaching end-of-life. That said, my local supplier lists 37 socket-1200 CPUs against 19 socket-1700 CPUs, so the old dog certainly isn't yet dead.
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 09/08/22 03:36 AM. Reason: typo
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Gordon
i too like the i5 option. good one.
best
om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Gordon’s point on hardware requirements is spot on. BIAB doesn’t require that much horsepower. If buying something new, the ability to Win11 or the latest MacOS on Apple Silicon is a must but one can find adequate used machines for a couple hundred bucks.
I, too, avoid heat and noise. Noisy, hot gaming PCs hold no interest for me. Besides my Mac, if a monitor runs warm to the touch, it’s gone—those made in the last 4 years or so are all extremely energy efficient so this is no longer an issue.
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Mike
i agree. if people are using low resource useage plug ins.
but if a user loada up on each bb trak fancy shmancy plug ins ie resource hogs, things can go pear shaped lol
particularly as biab gets more n' more daw features.
i only use low resource plugs in bb but some new users might not...who dont know bout possible implications.
and thus if they are useing some old 'clunker hand me down computer' probs can occur.
some music production users love their fav plug ins (some might be big resource hogs..which is why i test any plug to determine if its a resource hog.)
happiness
om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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So, amid all this yak yak yak, is anyone actually running BIAB over LINUX? A year later, that's what I'm looking for.
-Randy
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So, amid all this yak yak yak, is anyone actually running BIAB over LINUX? A year later, that's what I'm looking for. I did for the best part of a year, with a few niggles, but after a Linux upgrade it wasn't working properly and I decided the effort was better spent elsewhere. Short answer, it isn't just a plug-and-go exercise with BIAB; many VSTs have been pretty much plug-and-go, though recent "installation managers" seem to be less happy to play. I work on Linux most of the time, sice then I've been using BIAB much less. I have this year's Audiophile upgrade but haven yet even to installed it. I expect I shall sometime soon when I'm not too busy on other things to run Windows again.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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