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eddie1261
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I'm also interested to know more about the statement "Korg keyboards for one." I should add that the only Korg I have is a Krome 61 key with a 120v power power pack that transforms down to 12v. MIDI as well as OS and patch updating are done thru the MIDI port and my Focusrite interface. It has a USB connection on it but I have never used it.
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Eddie, I also have a seven-port USB/5v with multiple 110v AC outlets. I use it to charge the zillion lights on my recumbent bikes.
For 5v stuff for the computer, I use individual modules to power the mouse, for example. I also have a digital microscope on my desk to look at insects/diseases for identification on plants I grow that uses USB power. The individual modules are of various ampere ratings, from the type to charge the cell phones to slightly larger ones for higher ampere rated devices.
The seven-port device is okay for the garage but sort of clunky for the computer desk.
All this stuff has an ampere/milliampere rating that needs to be considered and matched to the use.
I have never looked at the output of any of these devices with an oscilloscope to see how much noise/ripple they generate or even measured the voltage to see how close to 5v dc they are.
I have a bunch of them, so I may go bust one of them up and look to see how it is made and do some testing. Not that they have caused me any known problems.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Some devices may not work well on an externally powered USB hub. Curiously I found my new BiaB audiophile version didn't want to. No big issue as I chose to copy to the internal drive anyway. I've generally reckoned that most things will work wherever, provided the port supports the throughput OK.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Some devices may not work well on an externally powered USB hub. Curiously I found my new BiaB audiophile version didn't want to. No big issue as I chose to copy to the internal drive anyway. I've generally reckoned that most things will work wherever, provided the port supports the throughput OK. A few years ago my PGM hard drive would not run from a powered hub. I haven't tried that again since then.
I think my wife has started to show the first signs of dementia.
She said she can't remember what she ever saw in me!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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eddie1261
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A few years ago my PGM hard drive would not run from a powered hub. I haven't tried that again since then. But it ran okay on bus power... that is really weird. The power on this 10 port hub is exactly what comes from the USB bus on the computer. I had the VOM out yesterday and tested.
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But it ran okay on bus power... that is really weird. The power on this 10 port hub is exactly what comes from the USB bus on the computer. I had the VOM out yesterday and tested.
But is it supplying enough amperage?
Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
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eddie1261
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But is it supplying enough amperage?
Yep. Exactly mirrored the power on the USB3 port on my Dell. Very strange that stuff doesn't work. Mario, do you have to use that cable that allows you to plug into 2 ports? That would double the amps.
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But is it supplying enough amperage?
Yep. Exactly mirrored the power on the USB3 port on my Dell. Very strange that stuff doesn't work. Mario, do you have to use that cable that allows you to plug into 2 ports? That would double the amps. Yes I did. But it was on a Win 10 machine or maybe when it was Win 7. It was USB2. It was some time ago.
I think my wife has started to show the first signs of dementia.
She said she can't remember what she ever saw in me!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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If it is a powered USB hub, running from the mains electricity, then surely it is designed to supply adequate power for the device loads.
Eddie, are there any specifications in terms of wattage etc on the hub?
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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eddie1261
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The Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Q3TYF15?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_detailsACASIS 10 Ports 48W USB 3.0 Data Hub - with Individual On/Off Switches and 12V/4A Power So it delivers 4 amps at each output. I currently have the wireless keyboard and mouse adapter, a Samsung tablet, an iPad, a Garmin GPS tracker and 2 cell phones plugged into it and have seen no performance anomalies at all. When you think about it, the connection going from the power strip to the computer probably doesn't have anything connected to pin 1 and pin 4 where the power runs, only 2 and 3 where the data runs. The ports in the strip, obviously, and wired for +5v on pin 1 and ground on pin 4 on one side and of course reverse on the other so the hot sides mate.
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I have a footpedal on my computer that allows me to program it and use it for keystroke function(s) that I might find repetitive for a particular task. There is a little app that programs what the pedal does. The app can't see the pedal if plugged into a powered USB hub.
After programming the pedal, I can move it back to the powered hub and it will work just fine, but if I want to change it to something else, I have to move it to the computer itself.
I don't know why, I just deal with it.
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I think we're nearly on the same page. The USB power is normally 5 volts, and that powered hub is certainly capable of delivering that 5 volts together with the power required (Watts). If there is an issue with any connection to another device, it's unlikely to be because the powered hub cannot supply the required current to maintain the 5 volt supply.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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eddie1261
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One thing to remember is that ALL USB connections are powered. Bus power delivers the same 5v as an external hub. I have looked into this topic for years and nobody has ever been able to sell me a reason why some random device cares whether it is powered by bus power or external power. My best guess is that the issue is not the power side but the data stream side. It may be that external hubs (and I will call them that because as I said, ALL USB ports are powered from somewhere) with several devices connected were trying to pass too much data through a USB 2.0 port. USB 2.9 passed data at 480 mbps. 3.0 will pass data 10 times faster at almost 5gbps. (I actually had someone try to tell me one time that you shouldn't plug a 2.0 device into a 3.0 port. Amazing. That's like saying that if your water supply is only 480 psi that pushing that water through a hose that supports 4800 psi means the water won't flow.) I would buy it if they said not to WASTE a 3.0 port with a 2.0 device and then not have a 3.0 port available when you need it. That made me question why PC manufacturers would put BOTH on a computer. If 3.0 is available, and since you put 2 of them on "this" model apparently it is, why not make them ALL 3.0 and remove the mystery?
Shall we get into the conversation as to whether even passive hubs (with no wall power supply) are in a real sense "powered" hubs because the plug into the computer and thus are bus powered?
I only bought this things because I wanted more ports but didn't want to strain my power supply. I am moving the same amount of data as I always did. And data isn't moving through it unless I make it move. There are 4 devices that are just charging. Like the GHOS for example. It does nothing with data until I start the Garmin Express software to check for updates. There are a lot of people who don't understand basic concepts yet postulate theories. Like with amperage. A power supply isn't "shoving" amperes out all the time. It delivers them when you request them, and then when the load stops, it goes back to wait status. I ran into this a lot with people who thought they understood solar power and calculating how much battery was needed. Yet they didn't get that adding a second battery in parallel maintains the 12v but adds amps. One guy literally argued with me that adding a second battery would mean I then had 24v. No concept of parallel vs series.
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One thing to remember is that ALL USB connections are powered. That's correct and quite fundamental. The USB protocol uses the power on/off to do things like USB device resets and to start up the enumeration process, whereby the device introduces itself to the host and they negotiate what the device wants and what the host and/or hub says it can have. USB ports have rules about what power can be taken from them and a unpowered hub can supply only what is allowed by the port into which it is plugged. Powered hubs have local autonomy on the power they can supply. My best guess is that the issue is not the power side but the data stream side. It could be both ... if the device says it wants 1A and the host or hub says it can't supply that, then the device will not operate or will operate in a lower-power mode. It may be that external hubs (and I will call them that because as I said, ALL USB ports are powered from somewhere) with several devices connected were trying to pass too much data through a USB 2.0 port. The device/hub/host will all also negotiate a throughput, but it will only be as fast as the whole chain can accept. I remember a time when thing like memory sticks would get an on-screen prompt that says they "may run faster if plugged into a USB ?.? port". Possibly that's now seen as "too hard for the average user", or maybe "Oh, they'll try another port anyway". Shall we get into the conversation as to whether even passive hubs (with no wall power supply) are in a real sense "powered" hubs because the plug into the computer and thus are bus powered? No, please don't. Better would be self-powered hubs versus host-powered hubs.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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...I remember a time when thing like memory sticks would get an on-screen prompt that says they "may run faster if plugged into a USB ?.? port". Possibly that's now seen as "too hard for the average user", or maybe "Oh, they'll try another port anyway"... Now that's funny. And you're right, I don't see that message anymore. I made the assumption, probably wrong, that USB 3 is ubiquitous enough now.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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eddie1261
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Now that's funny. And you're right, I don't see that message anymore. I made the assumption, probably wrong, that USB 3 is ubiquitous enough now. What's funny about that for me Matt is the concept that Fred The User can perceive that a file loads faster or slower. When you consider that to load a non executable file first the computer launches the executable attached to the file type, again, Fred The User doesn't even understand that to view that picture of Fluffy the Cat you are first launching the program you have assigned to open images. Or to play sound files, or edit word processor docs... Not one bit of that has anything to do with the speed of a USB port. I used to LOVE walking into a house to diagnose a problem and sit down at a real piece of crap computer with 4gb of RAM in it, double digit gigabytes of temp files, 4 years of browser history and a complaint that "the internet connection is really slow". Well, no it isn't. It's just that everything you do is first searching through your cache to see if that 3mb image is already on your hard drive before downloading it again. All this on a 12 mpbs connection. I did my best to be tactful but at a point you run out of polite ways to say "The problem is that you have no idea what you are doing here." I usually dump my tmp file folder several times PER DAY! Then there was the call where the issue was the CD burner wasn't working and "making a funny noise". I drove all the way over to that house, opened the CD drive to make sure the CD wasn't all scratched up to find that they had grabbed 2 CDs when they went to put a CD in to burn it. And the one who called me at 11:15pm to tell me that her kids were playing the pinball game and the computer froze, and it won't shut off even with the power button. I said "You woke me up for THAT? Have you even considered pulling the power cord out of the wall?" She sheepishly said "No." I tried to resist but I had to say it. "You are a JUDGE on the SUPREME COURT of Ohio! You are the most brilliant woman I have ever known and it never occurred to you to pull the power cord?" She just laughed and said "Nope. Go back to bed. I'll send you a check." Or the guy who held a Masters in Chemical Engineering who took my suggestion to order more RAM. He ordered an 8gb stick. The next week he called me to tell me he tried to install it and it took some force but he got it in and now the computer won't boot up. I went over there to find he had managed to force it into an IDE slot. I have NO idea how he even managed to make it fit. Matt, if you come to Herbstock I bet we could trade "IT Stories of the Damned" for hours.
Last edited by eddie1261; 01/05/23 06:08 AM.
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LOL, good stuff there, Eddie. Luckily, I haven't had to deal with customers like that in my IT history.
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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