I just got the software. I played a melody line on my keyboard and exported the midi file to Synth V. I then discovered that the notes could not overlap.
So I spaced them apart. OK, that worked. Now the phrasing needs to be adjusted.
My question becomes, "is it better to start out writing the melody/lyrics first and then deal with the harmonic structure separately"? To simplify, I would keep the notes in key. In other words, get the vocal down before using BIAB or live playing.
I find the software pretty intuitive and easy to use. It does appear that it is very time-consuming to get the sounds I want. Speed may come with use.
The very first attempt at using the software was only to produce the vocal.
EDIT: WOW! People are liking and reposting these one or two-measure tests like crazy. What's up with that?
Last edited by Planobilly; 02/03/2309:35 AM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
There's been lots of discussion over the years on whether you want melodies/lyrics first or the instrumentation. From what I've seen, people do it both ways. I tend to be more of a music/instrumentation first guy because it's easier to generate a melody off the chord progression you may already have in BIAB/Realband.
As you know, Billy, I'm just getting into Synth V too and I'm working a track now that has most of the music bed set up. Synth V does look like it has a record feature. What I may do as I'm setting up my melody is to sing into a mic right into Synth V. That should capture the rhythm/annunciations of my voice I want in the melody.
Before I do any of this however, I need to visit ChatGPT and other lyric bots and get those lyrics down and finalized.
For me, the answer is backing and then melody, because that's the order that I think of it in.
It's super-easy to create a simple backing track in BiaB to import into SynthV.
So even if you know the melody, I think it's always better to hear the melody against a backing track, because it helps you make all sorts of decisions.
You can play the melody track into SynthV via a MIDI keyboard in the stand-alone version. You can slow down the tempo if you're not a good keyboard player, but the backing track won't follow when you do that. But you can still mute the backing track play to the click of the metronome if you need to do that.
Or - if you're really lazy - play the rhythm only, and drag the notes to where they need to be.
Thanks, guys. That answered a couple of questions. I could not imagine entering every note manually.
At the moment, I am just trying to learn the software. I want to understand the best method to produce quality vocals.
At the moment, I would be happy to produce an excellent eight-bar phrase.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
I have tried both ways, melody first and Harmony first. I can work either way.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
I work on the song in BiaB then import it to Logic as separate tracks and also a combined track. I then open Synth V plugin, add the combined track and then work out the melody, usually I play it in via midid and then tidy it up after. Once happy I bounce just the Synth V part back to Logic, delete the combined part from Logic and then add any extra phrases etc to Logic. It seem we all have a different way of doing things, but if it gets the results that you want then its the right way.
One problem with Synth V is there is no downloadable manual, and the one online is based on the older version and not the Studio Pro version. There is an unofficial manual on the Synth V forum created by a very knowledgeable user. https://manual.synthv.info
I am still getting to grips with the software but am so impressed so far I have purchased three of the voice packs. Eleanor Forte AI, Natalie and Solaria. Each one of these leave me stunned that it is possible to create such a realistic vocal track.
Before Synth V I purchased Emvoice One, far simpler to use but nowhere near as realistic sounding as Synth V.
I guess because Synthesizer V is not a mature software there will be some issues in learning how to operate it.
Just the first few minutes of use and many issues were apparent. I am beginning to think that AI is in some ways similar to a human vocalist. One quickly reaches the limits of the vocal range and that requires adjusting the key signature.
Perhaps as I get more acquainted with the software I will find a way around the currently perceived limits.
Even if one can sing well or have access to another vocalist, the AI vocalist provides another dimension to vocals.
I think having an "on-demand" vocalist makes BIAB even more useful. Musical ideas can quickly be developed.
Learning this technology has caused me to consider the development of melodic structure in a way that is closer to classical theory or a least I am forcing myself to "hear" the melody in my head.
Lots to learn.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
One problem with Synth V is there is no downloadable manual, and the one online is based on the older version and not the Studio Pro version. There is an unofficial manual on the Synth V forum created by a very knowledgeable user. https://manual.synthv.info
Thanks Tryuk!!! This is awesome!
Originally Posted By: Planobilly
I am beginning to think that AI is in some ways similar to a human vocalist. One quickly reaches the limits of the vocal range and that requires adjusting the key signature.
This exactly! When I set up my first verse phrasing with Kevin, it sounded low and boring. I just had to transpose the whole section up a fifth and it sounded more bright and perfect. With the female vocalists I'm noticing I need to typically transpose an octave higher than Kevin so that they sound good.
So I spend a few hours last night playing and I had a blast learning it.
Originally Posted By: sslechta
I need to visit ChatGPT get those lyrics down and finalized.
Check, the ChatGPT was the winning AI and it was literally minutes to do this. I told it the musical style this was for, the name/chorus of the song, number of verses and choruses and how many lines in each. Then I told it I wanted 5 to 10 syallables per line. Boom! Instant decent lyrics. I did some tweaking to fit my song but I would say ChatGPT was 75% of the final lyrics.
Originally Posted By: sslechta
Synth V does look like it has a record feature. What I may do as I'm setting up my melody is to sing into a mic right into Synth V. That should capture the rhythm/annunciations of my voice I want in the melody.
Not quite. I found that it only accepts MIDI input, not audio. I reached out to my friend Melodyne and sang out the rough melody to it. Of course I had to drag pitches up and down to get the notes back in key (Yes, I sing that bad). I exported it as MIDI to BIAB. I opened up the piano roll and locked in the timing and length of the notes. I exported that MIDI and brought it into Synth V. I put Kevin on the first phrase and it sounded good. Only issue was that the first word, "started", didn't break into two notes. I Googled a tip that said to put the word in both notes and break the phonemes. I put (s t aa r) into the first note and (t ax d) into the second note. Another cool thing I found is you can change the duration and strength of each letter in the phoneme with a slider control. So the tool does allow you to tweak to your heart's content to get it to sound more real. Lots of learning to go but I'm loving Synth V so far...
Cool info Steve. I have just learned how to put a backing track in and I am digging into the plus-minus thing.
I find I can draw the midi notes in pretty fast. I can also play them in but that requires a lot of changing them around also.
Speed of use is not the priority at the moment. Getting good vocals is.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
I reached out to my friend Melodyne and sang out the rough melody to it. Of course I had to drag pitches up and down to get the notes back in key (Yes, I sing that bad). I exported it as MIDI to BIAB. I opened up the piano roll and locked in the timing and length of the notes. I exported that MIDI and brought it into Synth V.
That’s a way I’ve done it, just using Logic instead of Melodyne and BIAB. Provide some kind of pitch information with my voice then clone it to a bot to make it sound like music.
[ a bit late, but I completely missed this thread ]
Originally Posted By: Planobilly
I am beginning to think that AI is in some ways similar to a human vocalist. One quickly reaches the limits of the vocal range and that requires adjusting the key signature.
This!!!
I've posted this somewhere before, but anyway: treat synthetic singers just like a real singer! This means :
find her (assuming female vocals) usable vocal range
find her best sounding vocal range. If needed, transpose your song
find a singing rhythm that suits both their singing and the song
don't request things she can't deliver.
The question of how to start a song is as old as music itself, and everyone does it differently. What works best for me:
I noodle around on my acoustic or my keyboard until I find an interesting chord progression
Enter the chords into BIAB and play with some styles and instruments until it sounds good (or is discarded).
Decide on the structure of the song
Make a raw mix in my DAW
Just sing along until the lyrics come. Really. Unlike most, I can't start with a 'lalala' melody because I ALWAYS change the melody with the final lyrics. I don't know why I'm wired this way. I use the VST plugin of SynthV in my DAW and enter the lyrics and notes directly there.
I have absolutely no idea where my harmonies come from. I sing along and they are just there. Must be inherited from my mother who is a harmony monster
Mix until it sounds like a song, post it here, rinse and repeat
Like I said, this works for me, but not necessarily for you. My nephew does it the other way around, he starts with the vocals and the melody and builds everything around that. So, even in my own family, there's no agreement on how to write a song.
After a bit of experimentation, I am finding that I am not constrained to a particular method of "how to start a song." In fact, this software has influenced me to try to hear the melody in my head and write that as notes.
Without having a competent live drummer to collaborate with, I struggle with the rhythmic aspect of music generation in general.
I think Dave mentioned inserting and working to an audio track in the software. After I discovered how actually to do that, the process changed again.
My original thinking was to use a set of original lyrics and try to find a drum line/style that would work, then create a harmonic/chord structure. Then play the top line (vocal melody) on the piano. That was a temporary failure, as the lyrics were inappropriate for the structure. I then started entering new lyrics directly into the Synth V software and changing the position of notes which produced plausible results.
A "Hotel California" quality song is a bit further down the road...lol
Fun stuff in any event. I am well satisfied with the software purchase.
I think this software will provide me with a way to have instant access to a vocalist. That has been a missing component forever. Even if I hire a professional session vocalist, the time and lengthy process required negatively affect the creative process. The cost of hiring an excellent vocalist is getting pretty pricy to add to the issue.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
There are some new features coming in Synthesizer V Studio 1.8.1 which look promising.
Thanks for sharing that and the online user manual. I'm looking forward to the English Rock/Metal Voice coming soon. I will buy that one the first day it's for sale.....
There is a free version you can download. This only plays the Lite voices. To get the really good ones you need the paid version plus the paid voice sets. The free version gives you a taste but it's nowhere near as good as the paid version.
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