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RealBand
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Joined: Apr 2004
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OP
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 161 |
Hi,
I am going to add a few insert effects on my song, eq, compression and reverb on vocals and wonder is there any set order in the slots in which to add them?
Thanks a lot
Regards
Jan
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2003
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'Twas me I would use a multiband compressor in lieu of the EQ & mono compressor. I would not insert reverb.Use reverb in an FX buss.
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2000
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The order you mentioned is fine. Eq then compressor.
As silvertones mentioned, it is sometimes better to keep the reverb in an AUX slot of the mixer and use the AUX send to adjust how much reverb you get. When doing it this way you will usually want to turn up the 'wet' mix on the reverb because when doing it this way the reverb is being 'added to' the original track as opposed to having the track go through the reverb and needing to adjust the wet/dry there.
So, if using reverb in AUX slot, boost the wet mix and then control how much of that gets mixed in with the original signal by using the AUX send dial in the mixer.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Here's a little rule of thumb to keep in mind as it pertains to 'where to put the reverb or delay' in a signal chain.
You can go against this if you like but it sort of defeats the purpose of these two types of of signal processing.
Both reverb and delay are designed to 'fade away' a signal, as they both simulate acoustic environments that sound is played into.
They should be the last thing before the sound hits your speakers, to keep things sounding natural. My preference for these two is delay before reverb, with reverb being last for a particular track. Good idea to use reverb on a send just like rharv mentions.
EQ can be placed pretty much anywhere, but in general, you want to EQ individual tracks before they hit effects processing. Just think of EQ as frequency specific gain and it makes sense to put it there.
Compression/dynamics processing can be thought of as time-specific gain. It's kind of a natural placement right around where you are doing EQ - I prefer usually to put it after EQ on individual tracks.
Both EQ and Compression are intended to be full-on for the track(s) you are using them on. Generally not advised to use a send in this case.
Again, these are rules of thumb, which doesn't mean you follow them religiously.
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RealBand
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 161
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 161 |
Thank you all very very much for your kind advice. Now its time for me to try it all out  Regards Jan
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2007
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Check out Ray's RealBand tutorial at http://rsthigpen.com/free/Lots of helpful advice including what you asked. R
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RealBand
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,942
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Jan 2003
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I'm amazed that people still find those tutorials useful.
I get emails from time to time (at least one or two a month) from folks who tell me how the tutorials have helped them. I'm glad to know that.
I should review those things and see if I've changed my mind about any of that. Some are somewhat outdated with all the software changes --- but I guess the core of information is there. Lot of it is opinion... mine.... and others may differ in their opinions of what I've stated in those tutorials.
Hey......... I'm just glad someone uses them and they get some help with them.
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RealBand
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 100
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 100 |
I personally do compression then eq.
If i have boosted frequencies with the eq the compressor will pay more attention to squashing those boosted frequencies than spreading the over-all compression across the range of frequencies on that track. As a result I like to go compressor -> eq in the chain
Last edited by Rlittle; 06/21/10 04:25 PM.
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2000
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I guess it would depend on if you are cutting or boosting with the EQ.. If the frequency isn't there it can't get compressed. Also, compressors can bring up the noise level a bit, depending on what/how you are EQing
A simple compressor won't have the ability to 'pay attention to certain frequencies' and will only react to levels.
Multibands are a different story.
Experiment and have fun
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2003
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Quote:
'Twas me I would use a multiband compressor in lieu of the EQ & mono compressor. I would not insert reverb.Use reverb in an FX buss.
Yes Rharv I agree thus my suggestion.
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RealBand
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Joined: Jan 2002
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I am in agreement as well.
Part of my reasoning is that I rarely, if ever, boost too much with EQ. If I can't get it mostly right at the source, I have more work to do at the source. Now, room modes or resonances that sound wonky, I'll cut those, but I don't boost too much.
As it pertains to compression squashing boosted content - rharv is exactly right. Unless it's a multi-band, compressors really only reacts to level - of which low frequencies will dominate level. You'd have to really honk a particular band.
But to each his own. It's best to experiment with the order and see for yourself what works where. Guidelines are only that. Sometimes it pays to go off the trail!
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RealBand
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Quote:
I am in agreement as well.
Part of my reasoning is that I rarely, if ever, boost too much with EQ. If I can't get it mostly right at the source, I have more work to do at the source. Now, room modes or resonances that sound wonky, I'll cut those, but I don't boost too much.
Exactly, I learned this right on this forum either from you or Mac or probably both. If a track needs more highs, don't boost the highs, cut everything else. Also another good tip is to look at each instrument and completely cut the freq's that are out of range of that instrument like anything over 3K for a bass or anything below the appropriate freq for vocals, horns, guitars that kind of thing. I will listen to each track with an ear towards cutting as much as I can without degrading the instrument. This will really clean up a mix and let each part sit in it's own space.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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RealBand
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
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Quote:
Quote:
I am in agreement as well.
Part of my reasoning is that I rarely, if ever, boost too much with EQ. If I can't get it mostly right at the source, I have more work to do at the source. Now, room modes or resonances that sound wonky, I'll cut those, but I don't boost too much.
Exactly, I learned this right on this forum either from you or Mac or probably both. If a track needs more highs, don't boost the highs, cut everything else. Also another good tip is to look at each instrument and completely cut the freq's that are out of range of that instrument like anything over 3K for a bass or anything below the appropriate freq for vocals, horns, guitars that kind of thing. I will listen to each track with an ear towards cutting as much as I can without degrading the instrument. This will really clean up a mix and let each part sit in it's own space.
Bob
I'm pretty sure this was a tip I learned here a very long time ago, but I've seen it confirmed in print and in personal experience on so many occasions I couldn't count them up.
There's another little EQ tip that has nearly become a 'rule' to me. On the lion's share of tracks, kick and bass guitar/line excepted, there's really no reason to have content down below 200 Hz or so. I read this particular tip from the dance music producer, BT, in an interview in Computer Music magazine.
Now I tend to put a high-pass filter as the first in the signal chain on nearly every audio track I record and run the cutoff frequency from anywhere from 150 Hz on up to even 300-400 Hz, depending on the source. Only when I start to notice the life leave a track will I then back that frequency down. It is amazing how this opens up a song and puts a shine on things. People will use all sorts of words for it - clarity, spaciousness, etc. Very very effective on vocals - particularly for 'pop music' type vocals.
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RealBand
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Joined: Aug 2006
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Very good advice from everyone here. I love to read these type threads. One thing i do a tad different is sometimes depending on the needs i will pop a compressor in a buss like the reverb, and that way i can dial up just a touch for some of the tracks i feel that need it. I can still use track compression as well.
I always place a spectrum analyzer in the first slot of the master buss, and follw with a multiband EQ and roll down offending tones over all, then EQ separately tracks that sound badly.
The real thing is that there is no one way, you have to take the time to experiment and work though it.
Listen and mix, then go away and come back with fresh ears.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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RealBand
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Only thing I read on this page that I may question is the 'cut everything above 3kHz for bass'. In some cases there are a lot of interesting performance bits that happen around 2kHz (and up to almost 3kHz) on live bass tracks.. believe it or not. It's not the "bass" obviously, but it could be adding character to the bass. String noise, finger noise, snap on a string etc. {as Mac so finely stated, - a well recorded bass track sounds like they are working on a buick in the background (paraphrased probably)}
Also, the same applies to kick drum as there is some of the snap at 1-2kHz range. Often my EQ on both of these involves a reduction at 400Hz - 1kHz and then back up again for a small range above that... but every song is different.
I do think most tracks can be faded away below 250Hz. It cleans up a lot of the mud when you remove that range and below for most tracks like guitar, vocals, etc.
Last edited by rharv; 06/25/10 04:52 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Joined: Jan 2002
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+1 to rharv's comment about bass. There are many sources online, even the little studio buddy app, that encourage bass guitar to get a little peak in the 1-4kHz region. Thumb-popped bass has lots of snap up in that region. If you roll it off, you'll take away all the bassist's hard work to get the pop.
Same goes for Kick drum as rharv stated to get the beater sound on the kick (almost all metal and hard rock released in the last 10-15 years has very prominent beater noise on the kick drum - to the point where I think some studios even add in that click using Drumagog or other such tools).
I mix live sound for our worship band (which is quite a rockin band - leader just got a gig as Big Kenny's touring guitarist), and the drummer is different every week. I'm almost always peaking 4 dB or so in that region on the rack toms and kick for 'presence' in the mix - one of the few times I boost anything too much live.
-Scott
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RealBand
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 378
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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In my limited experience with RT's now that I have the software in my happy hands, they need a little help come mixing time. My chain in RB is eq, compression, and another eq if needed after compression. IMO, eq absolutely must be first in line when using RT's. Most all bass tracks I've used thus far seem to be pretty thick in the 400's and need to be at least notched somewhere in there, with the Q just wide enough not to do too much damage, but clear things up. A little boost around 2k or so helps bring out some clarity for the bass tracks as well. The RT drums all seem to have some pretty substantial rumble in the lower range and they also need to be notched, very carefully, to reduce this rumble. Too much and the kick drum goes to pot, which is exactly where this rumble is coming from, I believe. These two instruments are also helped by cutting everything out below 35hz, imo. All this helps the next processor in line- the compressor. And if compression loses me a little something, I'll eq a bit more, post compression. Verb and delay go to an aux. I use mostly Waves plugs in the chain. The problem I'm having in RB is that there is a delay when tweaking plugin settings. I'd like to cure that, for sure. But thankfully RB has plugin mode, so I can dump everything over to Reaper and really mix. It seems that for me, RB will fill the roll of all RT assembly and then once done, dump out to Reaper- a much more full featured DAW for mixing. Kudos to PG for including plugin mode. That's an open door to the world and it's no small thing we have it.
Btw- this chain usually does well for vocals too, but whatever order gets you your sound, than that's the order that worked!
Dan
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