With all the current hype about ChatGPT and the various AI engines that are apparently capable of generating high quality images and music, I'm wondering what the future road-map looks like for BIAB.
I've been a massive fan of BIAB since the 5.25" floppy days, but are its days numbered, in its present form?
Sure, each annual release gets a few more aesthetic features and a stack of new styles and realtrack samples, but the basic premise of BIAB hasn't really changed in the 30-ish years that I've been using it - you type in some chord symbols and it produces a backing track for you in a style of your choosing. It sounds a million times better now than it did in the early 90's (thanks to realtracks), but other than the sound quality and bit of tinkering here and there, the product hasn't fundamentally changed much over the years. But as simple as the production process sounds, you still need to have a certain degree of musical aptitude in order to get the best results from BIAB, even if you can't play any instruments.
However, I think there will come a point in the near future when we can simply say to an AI application, "create me a backing track for Autumn Leaves in a hip-hop style with a dreamy orchestral introduction and a bagpipes solo in the middle", and products like BIAB become as redundant as the musicians that BIAB has replaced (sorry! that was a rather facetious remark, as I doubt very much that any professional music has ever been made redundant by BIAB, but you get my drift and I couldn't help but observe the irony of it).
At some point, BIAB users are going to tire of the same old Jeff Lorber and Brent Mason realtracks (not me, I love those guys!), and the unadventurous intro-chorus-chorus-chorus-end song structure, and will be enticed by the possibility of simply describing their musical vision to an AI engine.
I wonder how BIAB is going to adapt to keep up with the rapid advancements in AI, or if it intends not to, but just position itself as a niche product for a specific type of person (of, dare I say it, a certain age).......
There's a lot of meat on the bone of this topic currently so rather than type out a response I'm going to give this one a little thought first. I will say that if humanity is removed from art and music then we have nothing left but a glorified algorithm as a replacement for what used to be some of mankind's greatest accomplishments.
At some point, BIAB users are going to tire of the same old Jeff Lorber and Brent Mason Real Tracks.
And may already have, I say as I raise my hand. I am not really interested in seeing how many notes Mason can squeeze into 8 bars with no consideration of taste and feel. His stuff is just notes. Better notes that I can play, but that's not the point. Rock and country rock guitar solo options are very limited. The Wish List is full of suggestions but they do not get acted upon.
What's funny to me is this. I follow Tom Bukovac's youtube channel. Many of them are shot at studio sessions in Nashville. You will often see Bryan Sutton, Paul Franklin and John Jarvis at those sessions. Now, I said that to say this. Obviously PG has some kind of connection to that A List inner circle in Nashville because those 3 names are represented in the Real Tracks artists. Bukovac is THE guitar player down there these days. Mason is WAY last year's news. Nobody will ever say (and I have asked) if they ever tried to contact him to lend his sound to the Real Tracks. They must pay those guys decent bucks for their work or they wouldn't do it. Dan Dugmore is another good guy to play pedal steel. Franklin is awesome, but options never hurt. I looked down the list of everybody who plays Real Track samples and some of them are decades old. Some may even be dead. Many I have never heard of and had to Google to see what they have ever done.
So before AI replaces everything, maybe not for the better, let's get some new blood in here, okay?
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
I think the AI is just hype at this point in time. I have a lyric writing AI app and it's kind of plain white vanilla.... it's not yet ready for prime time or even close in taking over for the creative human mind.
Regarding BB and real tracks.... same thing. It's not the tracks, but how you choose to work with them that makes the song. You and I could use the same exact style, tempo, key, and real tracks and those songs would sound totally different. It's in the human creative mind.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
When Band-in-a-Box first began it was strictly a MIDI production that played midi patterns. Over time Band-in-a-Box added user recorded audio, audio loops, Artist Performance Tracks, RealTracks and midiSuperTracks to enhance playback sound. PG Music licenses and frequently updates pitch and tempo technology to enhance playback performance. These steps encourage me to believe PG Music will continue to update Band-in-a-Box to keep it relevant.
I'm a musician, and I like to play with music. I like to create things, and BiaB is one tool that helps me do that.
I don't want to say to some AI app, "Write a song in the dorian mode with a sax solo as the highlight."
Hundreds of CDs in my collection already do that or in another mode, and as much as I love listening to other people make music, I like to make my own.
It's one of the reasons why I don't use the Real Track solo and melody tracks. I want to play them myself.
I can put some chords into BiaB, run the app, pick up my sax, wind synth, or guitar and play along with it. Since I put the chords in myself, I know what they are, and have a few ideas on how to improvise a solo over the changes.
When I bought BiaB, back in the DOS days, that is exactly what I bought it for. I could improvise solos over songs my band was learning, try out daring things which have low odds of working but if they do, they would be cool, and I wouldn't be taking up the band's time while I experiment.
Eventually, BiaB released the StyleMaker to allow end users to make their own styles. Since I also play bass, drums, and some keys, I tried my hand at it, gave some away, and friends told me they liked them better than PGs. (Aren't friends great). I took out an ad in Electronics Musician magazine, and +30 years later, I'm still making them and selling them.
Making the styles is also a creative process, that I certainly wouldn't want to turn over to some AI bot. Why? It's time-consuming, I get lost in the zone so I don't notice the time passing, and when I'm done with a style and I'm proud of it, I'll offer it for sale. If I don't like it, I'll either make it work until I'm happy, or consider it a learning experience. It's important to know what not to do.
I think AI music would eventually have its place, but for me the fun of music is playing it myself.
I suspect there are a lot of other musicians who want to play, and wouldn't want the AI playing it for them.
Yes, one may be able to request A.I. to do many musical & music related things but not everyone will want to. BIAB can supply a lot but I still, for the most part, record bass & guitars because I can, becasue I like to & becasue, rather like A.I., BIAB can be, at times, a little too generic sounding. Quite a lot of BIAB users play their instruments and sing their songs because that's what they like to do. Using A.I. makes a lot of sense as an enabling tool for those who can't do certain things and for those making demos, jingles etc that fit the genre specifics that the A.I. can access. A.I. would remove, for the most part, the hobby aspects that song writing & recording using BIAB encourages.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Even if BIAB development stops today, in it's present form, I know it will entertain me for years to come. Let me put it this way... When references are made to AI, it is like comparing a mass produced "artwork" from Walmart to a local art gallery. Sadly, as history shows, masses will prefer buying a $29.99 "wall art" from Walmart, instead of getting a $80 limited etching, supporting local artist. But even with all Amazawalmarts combined, there will always be interest and demand for "handmade" arts & music.
Sure, program needs "this & that" no argument there... But the library, even in existing form is phenomenal. Not some chopped cuts from a 1 minute gigs that some developers call "libraries". But a true music library with thousands of hours of performances by talented humans that will play with and for you!
Of course if you got time and money to waste you can just hire anybody and do anything, but for hobbyists, backing tracks, non-gig artists, "on demand" tunes, pro-sounding sketches that can later be embellished with live musicians, substituting a drunk guitarist, bassist who is on a vacation, pianist who is waiting for a tuner, if you have no time for basement practices, need a solo part for the instrument you are unfamiliar with, I can go on...BIAB will come to the rescue. Pre-requisite is to like the genres heavily represented in BIAB: Pop/Rock/Blues/Country/Jazz/Folk
dr_t, I agree with many of the above sentiments. Just because AI can do something doesn't mean that I want it to do it for me. I think what this comes down to is are you a creative or not? There's no right or wrong answer, it just a question.
Or if that question is too blunt let me sharpen it.
To what degree are you a creative?
For me, I consider myself a creative (albeit, not a very good one) and so, I like to produce, create, build, ponder, experiment, modify, edit and fix. I get an intellectual high from creating something that has never [exactly] been produced before. For me, this is one of the fundamental attributes of being human. I get satisfaction in knowing that my personal thumbprint is on a piece of music. Sure. I have a bunch of tools and toys that help me in this but it is me that controls the creative process. And I choose not to hand that over to a bot.
To be sure, music is far from the only domain where this applies. There are millions of people around the world that get a similar sense of satisfaction and cretive accomplishment in areas such as literature, visual art, medicine, engineering, science, carpentry, design work, sports, acting, education, etc.
At some point I may dabble in AI tools, but I will view them as just that . . . tools. For as long as I am able, the creative engine for the work I produce will always be located between my ears.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
The fact that something is new and is better does not render other older products useless or unwanted.
I drive a 2023 car with satellite radio. I don't think people will likely send all the 1957 Chevys with AM push-button radios to the junkyard just because the new car is much better.
BIAB has many uses. There are hundreds of demo songs to play along with and learn new stuff.
Some people want instant gratification and do not want to put any effort into what they are entertaining themselves with. If AI can produce acceptable results for those people, they will use it. If corporate America can push a button and generate a marketable song, they will certainly do that.
AI will also become helpful to people who play music. AI will generate ideas that will give musicians something new to experiment with.
AI will take over some jobs currently done by humans. New technology frequently does that.
P G Music will continue to make improvements to its product in an attempt to continue to be profitable. They have no choice but to adapt to the current demands. Their bottom line will dictate what comes next. Those companies that have the ability to adapt will survive. Those who can not adapt will not survive.
Just because AI may be able to generate guitar tracks does not entice me to stop playing guitar. AI may be able to generate guitar sounds, but it can not play anything at this point.
Relax; the world is unlikely to come to an end this week.
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
As I have said many times virtually all of my songs start in BiaB. BiaB is the tool that has kept me interested in and playing music. But I have a question.
What is the difference between asking AI to create a song about love using an intro, 2 verses, a prechorus, chorus, and an ending or putting chords into BiaB and looking for style? Are not both using a form of AI?
Both are tools and how you use them is up to you.
You know you're getting old when a recliner and a heating pad is your idea of a hot date!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I think they're probably not, though there are all sorts of philosophical possibilities.
I think "AI" means a software that learns for itself from exposure to data and forms an answer from that data by searching for patterns in the data that suggest some consistency upon which to draw a conclusion. The obvious problem is that the data has to be sound and sensible for that to work.
I think BiaB is a set of rules, presumably including some random seeding, created by people about what is expected of music production and that it probably does not learn for itself.
The AI will be influenced by people, though, whether by the choices of data on which it is 'trained', or by public opinion, or by mischievous influence, and by how well it understands(?) cause and effect.
I read recently, though haven't bothered to try to verify it, that (ChatGPT?) was arguing very assertively that the current year is 2022 and was accusing it's questioner of bad faith in telling it that it was wrong and that the year was 2023. It's had a year of understanding that the year is 2022 and only a few weeks at most of people telling it otherwise. How long will it take to recognise that things change and it must unlearn certain facts that have become obsolete? Will it be able to tell that from deliberate lies?
That's really quite tricky.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. Kawai MP6, Korg M50, Ui24R, Saffire Pro 40. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11; Win8.1: Scarletts BIAB2022 UltraPAK, Reaper, a bunch of stuff.
Just because AI may be able to generate guitar tracks does not entice me to stop playing guitar.
I selected only this point to comment on.
Mario was right on about the fact that PG products ARE really AI at some level. You give it a style and some chords and it spits out music.
Billy made an important observation. AI won't influence me to stop playing. My diminished skills have influenced me to stop playing. If Real band can make music better than I can (and at this point it's not even close) then I will use the music Real Band makes rather than what I can do myself.
What gets lost in the shuffle of this topic is this.
It's still MY input, MY composition, MY lyrics, MY soul that tells any music generating product to create. And I get to make it do that process again and again until I like it. I am working on a cover of a song by The Cure for Herbstock that has so far seen me generate the basic song, render those to WAV files, start over, generate again, render to WAV again, keep some of the old, add some of the new, and so on.
BIAB, RB, Garage Band, any form of AI, they are just tools. HUMANS ad the "code", the instruction set that makes those tools work the way we want them to. One definition of artificial is "a copy or imitation of something real". So is it really ARTIFICIAL intelligence? The end product is real music, written by human instruction with computer coded instruction produced by HUMAN intelligence.
Love this kind of discussion!!! Nerdvana!
Last edited by eddie1261; 02/16/2304:53 AM.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
My diminished skills have influenced me to stop playing. If Real band can make music better than I can (and at this point it's not even close) then I will use the music Real Band makes rather than what I can do myself.
Second point.... after considering it for a bit.....
You may or may not know that BB has had a sort of AI built in for a very long time. Way back in my early days of playing around with BB, expperimenting to see what was under the hood, I came upon the MELODIST function. When used, the Melodist creates a "song" for you according to the info you give it.
Quite a few of my early day creations in the jazz and bluegrass styles were initially created using the Melodist. In most cases, I ended up doing at least some rudimentary editing or in other cases, a major overhaul and redesign of the basic idea from the Melodist.
I haven't used the Melodist now in a very long time.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
This graphic is how I boil down this subject. It's all about how much personal creativity we have pushed into any given song. We and everyone else is sitting somewhere on this spectrum for any song we have or will produce.
So on the extreme left of the spectrum we have "Cave People Joe and Jane" who first figured out that banging a stick onto a tree and singing to it was fun. There is no greater creativity. They invented their instrument and they were influenced by no other cave people because they were the first.
On the extreme right you have "write me a song" spoken into an AI program or you have outright stolen the song; thereby achieving no creativity at all. Any creativity that does exists in this case is from the people who wrote the stolen song and/or the AI technology used.
I would say that most of us are in Zone 2, 3 or 4. I hope I never end up in 5.
And sorry . . . it's too late to bang a stick on a tree and claim credit
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
There is a fundamental difference between BIAB and AI. AI can change its outputs based on new inputs, while an algorithm (BIAB) always generates the same output for a given input.
So, no, BIAB has no AI involved that I am aware of.
If you think there is no skill or creativity involved in generating an AI song, make one in Synthesizer V using BIAB for the backing track and post it.
At some point in the future, perhaps we will be able to describe what we want to hear, and a hit a button and a song will result. That is not today.
Actually, I think much better AI software will require even more skill and creativity to use and get good results.
Billy
New location, new environment, new music coming soon
Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo
Billy, "(BIAB) always generates the same output for a given input."
I thought BIAB was randomizing results with each change (input), unless you freeze or use partial regeneration. That actually was a huge problem for me until partial regeneration came along, as tracks were acting like snakes with pinched tail when change was introduced
"At some point in the future, perhaps we will be able to describe what we want to hear, and a hit a button and a song will result. That is not today."
I think, it will be more like spitting in the tube connected to Inteloteslapple, AI will analyze your mood from saliva and will generate your personalized masterpiece hit of the day. Those who "Describe" will be considered maestros.
If you've reviewed our Support page, you've probably noticed the Videos page, which separates our Band-in-a-Box® tutorial videos by category: Overview, VST DAW Plugin, Setup, Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced, and there's even an Archive category to go down memory lane... (You'll also find these videos on our YouTube Channel.)
Ci siamo dati da fare e abbiamo aggiunto oltre 50 nuove funzionalità e una straordinaria raccolta di nuovi contenuti, tra cui 222 RealTracks, nuovi RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 3, Playable RealDrums Set 2, due nuovi set di "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 e altro ancora!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 apporte plus de 50 fonctions nouvelles ainsi qu'une importante de contenus nouveaux à savoir : 222 RealTracks, des RealStyles nouveaux, des SuperTracks MIDI, des Etudes d'Instruments, des Prestations d'Artistes, des "Morceaux avec Choeurs", un Set 3 de Tracks Jouables, un Set 2 de RealDrums Jouables, deux nouveaux Sets de "RealDrums Stems", des Styles XPro PAK 6, des Xtra Styles PAK 17 et bien plus encore!
Video: Making a Song with Band-in-a-Box®, ChatGPT, and Synth V
Take your Band-in-a-Box® project to a whole new level when you incorporate ChatGPT and Synth V to add lyrics and vocals to your song!
We wanted to demonstrate how this is done with our video, where we show you how to go from nothing to a finished "radio ready" modern pop song by combining the features of Band-in-a-Box®, ChatGPT, and Synth V!
User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
The Bob Doyle Media YouTube channel is known for demonstrating how you can creatively incorporate AI into your projects - from your song projects to avatar building to face swapping, and more!
His latest video, Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box, he explains in detail how you can use the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box with ACE Studio. Follow along as he goes from "nothing" to "something" with his Band-in-a-Box MIDI Melodist track, using ACE Studio to turn it into a vocal track (or tracks, you'll see) by adding lyrics for those notes that will trigger some amazing AI vocals!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
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