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Sometimes when I save a midi file from BIAB notes are added or removed so that the playback is not the exact same in my DAW.
Normal?
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Billy, did you freeze the master prior to saving/moving using the DAW mode in BiaB?
If you don't freeze the tracks they will regenerate when you save or move tracks to your DAW.
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Yes, what Mario (MIDI king) said: that’s normal, so you need to freeze first. But there could be more to it depending on whether your question is limited to content, or also includes sound.
If you render your BIAB tracks to audio you should be good. Check that you do (or don’t, as you prefer) have it centered with no panning or effects. If you are taking MIDI tracks into your DAW, are you using the same MIDI synth? Same panning and effects?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Thanks, guys. I had forgotten about the freeze issue.
This was two piano-only midi tracks.
This is a midi-only issue, as far as I know. I put a midi demo file in BIAB. I then rendered that midi file and put it in my DAW. There were only a couple of added notes that I did not notice at first.
The chord chart indicated a chord that did not sound correct when I played the piece on my piano. As I then started transcribing everything note for note, I discovered the added notes.
The chord issue is something I occasionally see. A chord is indicated, but it is not correct. It almost always only happens when a song is regenerated.
I always assumed a glitch in the regeneration algorithm.
In normal conditions for me, I am rendering several tracks and would not even notice something like this. In this case, I was trying to learn to play this demo note for note on my piano.
Thanks again, guys.
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 06/04/23 01:42 PM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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About the chord issue, you might enjoy reading through my article in the Tips and Tricks Forum about when BIAB doesn’t quite play the chords you expect. Lots of suggestions. Here it is: https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=694482#Post694482
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Thanks, Matt. I just forget some of this at times. Good reminder you and others posted.
It is always better to get what you want from the start. Almost all fixes are detectable at some level.
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 06/04/23 03:35 PM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Great advice. Everyone should read this one. Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Sometimes when I save a midi file from BIAB notes are added or removed so that the playback is not the exact same in my DAW.
Normal?
Billy No that is not normal. While the sound may change due to different synths, the midi notes and their associated CC's should be identcal. Otherwise, something is wrong. Ya, it could be your workflow as suggested here in the forum. BIAB has many ways to move MIDI which could get it changed in either before or after the transfer. But if you do it right, it will be the same. Dan
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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Dan has a good point: Tell us exactly how you take the MIDI from BIAB into your DAW (there being several choices).
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I open BIAB
File
load from Stylepicker
Load song demo
file
save special
save song as a midi file
type one midi file
OK save as file
In the case of the file in question, there were only two tracks, and both were midi piano.
I did not freeze the tracks. I am not sure why one would need to. I never even played the song in BIAB before rendering it.
There are a lot of uncommanded actions in BIAB based on preferences.
Also, I would never notice one note missing from the piano track in a normal situation. I just happened to return to BIAB because of a chord that did not sound correct when I played the song live on my piano. I wanted to see if what got rendered was correct.
The chord issue is another preference issue in BIAB. BIAB can and does play chords differently than what is written both by the user and in a demo.
This is just part of the arcane nature of the software. More or less fixable if you know exactly where to go and understand the interrelationships between the possible selections.
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 06/05/23 02:00 PM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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… I never even played the song in BIAB before rendering it.
Billy
The MIDI doesn’t exist until the song is (re)generated.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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So, now I am really confused. It is possible I played through the song in BIAB I guess.
If you go to Stylepicker and find a demo song which obviously has a chord progression that is midi, what does it load?
I will go back to BIAB and check something an be back.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Yes, Matt, I must have played at least a few bars of the song. Otherwise, you can not render it.
I did a test to see.
Also, I assume the song was rendered as soon as I hit play.
Re-rendered?
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 06/05/23 03:16 PM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Let me be more clear. The MIDI doesn’t exist if you load the song but don’t play it, so when you go to export the MIDI, BIAB automatically regenerates the song before exporting it.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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When I did the test just now, BIAB would not render the song at all until I played a few bars.
Can you test that idea? Any midi song. Load it but don't hit play. Go straight to render.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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When I did the test just now, BIAB would not render the song at all until I played a few bars.
Can you test that idea? Any midi song. Load it but don't hit play. Go straight to render.
Billy
Billy, I just loaded an all MIDI style, and checked notation for one of the instruments. Its was blank/empty as expected. Then I dragged the Master onto the MIDI drop-zone, which went green almost immediately, and when I checked the same instrument (ElPiano), the notation was now available. So I am surmising that the single action of dragging the Master track to the MIDI drop-zone also generates the song (if required), which matches what Matt mentioned above. In my tests, the notation never changed by dragging multiple additional times unless the Generate/Play button was pressed. I repeated with a new song, loaded a style demo, the tracks were empty (song was not generated) and then I used your steps: file save special save song as a midi file type one midi file OK save as file And it definitely generated the file before saving. HTH a little, Trev
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Professional & Windows 11, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors
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Thanks Trev
I guess I had always assumed that when a demo song was loaded and chords appeared, the tracks were in place. Actually, it is evident that BIAB is doing something before it starts playing the first time by the delay.
I have never been exactly clear on what conditions cause BIAB to regenerate. I typically use the freeze function to prevent that.
That brings up another question. Occasionally in the past, BIAB has regenerated a song for reasons I did not understand.
Is there a direct way to get back to the original generation?
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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OK, Billy, I think we are closing in on this. You are correct that BIAB 'does something' before it can play the song or render the song in any form. That's what I was trying to say.
The conditions to regenerate should be clear but the picture has been muddied by occasional oddities where it regenerates when not required, or worse, does not regenerate when you think it should. These cases have been fixed by patches, but they do tend to reoccur after many years, to be patched again. That may explain your observation. Yes, as you say, Freeze is your friend here.
I think the answer to the last question, is there a direct (my emphasis) way to get back to the original generation, is a No. You cannot Edit, Undo, for example. The best method probably is to do an end run around the process: make lots of Freezes and Saves of versions when developing a song.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Thanks, Matt. That clears up all my questions. One could write a large book about what I don't know about BIAB...lol
I would say all these issues are minor and seldom occur, to begin with.
I assume, for me at least, they occur due to "pilot error." It is easy to forget things like freeze. I have never had an issue when I remembered to use freeze.
Thanks again, to all of you who responded.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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I know I'm not going to be the one to write that book, because I know there is too much I don't know.
That's probably a nice problem to have.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
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XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
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Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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