My and your info both seem to agree that the Amaj chord is not in the Dm key, yet the Amaj sounds good to me and presumably others. Not sure if I understand this.
Actually it kinda sorta it, even though it is buried deep in theory and sounds like a pile of crap. There is a strange, wild chord called a Minor Major Seventh which is composed of the Root, Minor Third, Perfect Fifth, and Major Seventh. In the key of Dm, it would be D, F, A, C#. I don't know where you'd use it (I never would other than maybe a passing tone) but some of the jazz guys may have used one. Play a minor 7th and sharp the top note. It is truly cacophonous, but discordant harmony usually is.
You're both not quite correct. A major most certainly is in the key of D minor. It's the V (dominant) chord. Typically that would be a dominant 7th chord, but not always.
The seventh scale degree in a minor key is often raised, creating that leading tone to the tonic which also turns the chord built on the 5th scale degree into a major chord, giving us a stronger V-I cadence.
That's where the Harmonic Minor scale comes from.
The reason why the Major V chord in a minor key sounds right is because you're used to hearing it; 300 plus years' worth of it has been pounded into your ears.
That m/M7 chord ís an entirely different beast altogether. It is what you get if you build a 7th chord on the root of the Harmonic Minor scale.
Also whoever said that the Aeolian Mode is just the minor scale is not quite correct either. The natural minor scale and Aeolian Mode might have all the same notes, but the difference is one of context.
"Key" and "Mode" are not interchangeable.
Music based on functional harmony strongly relies on the V - I cadence and that is true of minor keys as well.
Modal chord progressions seem to be more linear and the chords are not functional like in tonal music. The typical Aeolian cadence is bVI - bVII - I.
Byron Dickens
BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency.
<...snip...> If you are the lead instrument playing a solo based on what the rest of a popular band is playing, there is no time to be thinking about theory, what scale will fit, or what mode you want to use.<...>
That is what practice is for.
When learning a new, challenging song, I analyze it first. Then I try a few things out because I can often analyze it more than one way, or analyze it erroneously. Depends on the song.
I have practiced scales, arpeggios, and other basics until they are under my fingers. If I know the key center of the part of the song I'm in, what I hear in my mind is immediately transferred into my fingers. I don't know how that is done.
In fact, I don't even hear it in my mind first, I hear it as I'm playing it. Like I said, I don't know how that happens.
On the gig, 99% of the playing is done without thinking. No words are thought. It's just a flow. Analyzing is all done in practice sessions. On stage, the object is to get into “the zone” and have fun.
Even though I play pop music for a living, and most of it isn't very challenging theory wise, my theory knowledge makes me a better player than I would have been if I hadn't learned it.
IMO, every musician and even every singer should learn at least basic music theory.
A major most certainly is in the key of D minor. It's the V (dominant) chord.
Typical reference to a "minor" scale generally referes to the Natural Minor or Aeolian mode. In which case the V chord is minor not major. But you are of course correct in referencing the harmonic minor scale with a major V chord.
And if your point is to further emphasize the importance of applying music theory in our music making, then you are right on target.
You're both not quite correct. A major most certainly is in the key of D minor.
I think you maybe misinterpreted the term minor major 7th. Apparently because you saw the word major.
Please read +++THIS+++ and sit at your piano while you do.
A D minor major 7th has to do with one weird chord, not the context of the scale where some of the chords along the path from octave to octave are major chords. A D minor 7 remains a minor 7 even when the 7 is sharped, making it a minor chard with a maj 7th voicing.
I'd refer you to Dr John Venesile, one of music professors, had he not died in 2016 from pancreatic cancer. LOL!
Also check +++THIS+++ Wiki page that defines Aeolian mode as the natural minor scale.
Harlem Nocturne. Second Bar. Classic MinorMaj7 example. Nice Minor7 (b7) arpeggio to set it up in bar 1. The maj7 pushes hard against it. Beautiful dissonance.
You're both not quite correct. A major most certainly is in the key of D minor.
I think you maybe misinterpreted the term minor major 7th. Apparently because you saw the word major.
Please read +++THIS+++ and sit at your piano while you do.
A D minor major 7th has to do with one weird chord, not the context of the scale where some of the chords along the path from octave to octave are major chords. A D minor 7 remains a minor 7 even when the 7 is sharped, making it a minor chard with a maj 7th voicing.
I'd refer you to Dr John Venesile, one of music professors, had he not died in 2016 from pancreatic cancer. LOL!
Also check +++THIS+++ Wiki page that defines Aeolian mode as the natural minor scale.
I think there can be some confusion for some people related to the difference between a dominant seventh and a major seventh. They are both seventh chords but sound very different and resolve differently.
If someone "said" to me, play a Dmin7, I would play the dominant seventh. The seventh note is C. DminM7 is a more or less discordant chord using Db, which is the major seventh. I indicate Db and not C# because the key of D minor is a flat key.
One of the issues with not knowing much about theory is that you may go to a totally unexpected place. Theoricatilly competent musicians have a very good idea of what is coming next and if you deviate very far that becomes confusing.
Of Course, there are no "wrong" notes or chords, but most of us need to be pre-informed to follow you into an unexpected place.
The technical reason for DminM7 sounding discordant is you have this minor second involved.
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 06/24/2305:27 AM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
1.- Learning to read music is also learning music theory. The farther you get into reading music the more theory you will learn and that will kick start you off into more theory.
As usual, you make a good point.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
When learning a new, challenging song, I analyze it first. Then I try a few things out because I can often analyze it more than one way, or analyze it erroneously. Depends on the song.
I have practiced scales, arpeggios, and other basics until they are under my fingers. If I know the key center of the part of the song I'm in, what I hear in my mind is immediately transferred into my fingers. I don't know how that is done.
Notes, as a gigging professional musician and per my awareness, you are in a sparsely populated clan in this forum. Keep your locomotive running man and thanks for your incites
Sometimes a picture can be worth a thousand words. I can relate to this guy's sense of being overwhelmed. Nonetheless, this is a fun journey I'm on!
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Of Course, there are no "wrong" notes or chords, but most of us need to be pre-informed to follow you into an unexpected place.
Let's hear your take on this Billy. I have always believed that you could take almost any group of 4 notes and by moving the voicing around you can probably justify it using theory to somehow make a valid chord. There may be a missing third you have to insert but you can probably wrangle most combinations of notes somehow into a chord. Some may not make sense in popular music with the "standard" chord changes we hear 99% of the time, but they are chords.
I always held aside a group I called "Brubeck chords." He used discordant harmony very well. I'm a big fan of 11th, personally. LOL
If you play the piano and not depressing two keys down with one finger, with both hands, you get a chord/sound, whatever you want to call it, with ten notes. Your digital piano will not tell the chord's name because it does not exist. On top of that, it does not sound very musical generally.
If you play Dm in the left hand and Bbmaj7 in the right hand, it is still Bbmaj7 which makes it a seven-note chord. Then play Eb7#11 ( the 11th just for you, Eddie...lol) in this voicing, again with seven notes, D, Eb, F,A, Bb, Db,A. Both of these are known chords and could occur in a jazz setting. Play the same thing but leave the F in, and you have a slightly strange Eb79 with eight notes.
So...when playing these highly extended chords, you can leave out notes or add certain notes that may make it an unrecognizable chord, but it may very well infer the extended chord. Classic music theory is not so much about hard and fast rules but definitions of what is being played.
The 13th chords are frequently played as chord fragments but infer the 13th chord. C major without the third is still a C chord, a so-called power chord, but it does not infer the major or minor.
Even with three-note chords, it is a bit hard not to form some sort of chord. For example, play C major in the root position and raise C to Db, and you get Dbminb5. Typically what takes you out from known chord names is highly discordant sounds constructed by using minor seconds.
Piano and guitar are the instruments likely to play some "unknown" chord. Piano players are much more frequently likely to have some training and will understand why what they are doing is logical.
Eddie, you have perhaps a greater liking for discordant sounds than I do based on the post you have made depicting artists using that motif.
Minor seconds are pretty distracting to me.
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 06/24/2308:54 AM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
I listened to this tune. I hear a nice Dm progression with a i - iv - v mix. Well suited to play a minor pentatonic scale to construct the melody to play over. However, as we all know this is a limited vocabulary combined with limited chords, which constrains the song from expanding to much other than a blues jam. Your bass is targeting the D which emphaises the Aeolian mode (good start), however, for more non-blues modern feel, try targeting the G to hear that Dorain feel (Dorian will add years to this classic vibe - thats what the text books tell us...). You will also need to expand the progression beyound the i, iv and v chords to create a bridge which will pull you out of the pentatonic scale and permit the melody to bloom and the song to tell a story.
Hmmm, interesting and well thought-out advanced analysis Dan, thank you for this.
Am I correct in saying that Fragments of a Dream could be improved by Scaler by 1. "Constructing a melody to play over"? 2. Expanding the "limited vocabulary and chords of the song"? 3. Helping to add a "Dorian feel"? 4. Helping to "expand the progression beyound the i, iv and v chords to create a bridge"? 5. Allowing my creativity to flow into the song rather that it writing it for me?
If this song is say a 3 on a scale of 10 and Scaler could help elevate it to say a 5 or 6, and you don't need a PhD in music theory to use it; then Scaler has my attention.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with Scaler or any other software tools (which by the way is currently on sale for $49). Scaler just happens to me a go-to tool for me. Others have pointed out alternate tools which I am sure provide similar assistance. And while, yes, the "thought-out advanced analysis" I provided is drawn from my use of Scaler, I am a student, so the true value of this analysis may be worth what you paid for it - nothing. But I do stand by the conclusion that the knowledge and information provided by Scaler could indeed help move Fragments of a Dream to the next level in regards to all 4 points you made,.
So - Scaler will NOT make your music sound any better. It is not a Effects VST that you plug into and then it all sounds better coming out. It is designed to provide knowledge and inspiration to help you make your music sound better primarily as a composition tool for writting music based on consideration and selection of chord sequences and their associated scales that you select. It does also provide a large selection of templates (ala BIAB) if that is what you need to start the process. And it will produce midi tracks to accompany the chord selections, including a large selection of VI sample sounds, but that is not my primary usage. But this does work well for writing a Melody. Scaler does exactly what is being done here by two talented musicians: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA7gdz56LtY. But of course you now see were the need to "read music" gets involved.
This tool is like having a copy of Stefan Koska's classic text, "Tonal Harmony, an introduction ot twentieth-century music", on you desktop. But I open Scaler a lot more frequently than Koska.
I know you construct your chord charts and bassline by ear and you play the chords on keyboard, which is admirable. However, the chords charts <<and melody>> that Scaler may suggest may not be "playable" for you? This is not an issue in my case, since I readily acknowledge my keyboard skills can not handle complex chords but I use the scaler midi to drive any and all VIs. Kontakt knows all the chords and can "read" the music that Scalers writes. ! I mention this only for consideration.
If you are interested I can do a demo walkthrough of Scaler via zoom for you. We can start with your Fragments of a Dream chords. Or I may have connections to get you a timed-demo version to play with. Let me know if either sounds interesting?
To Dan's point about doing a demo of Scaler, let's do that as soon as possible. I am looking forward to a live master class put on by Dan the Man. I would like to see a question-and-answer session that someone would moderate. Steve if he will do it.
Steve has said he would host the Zoom meeting as he has a paid subscription.
Beyond that, David Cuny has agreed to do a mixing workshop with questions and answers using the same format.
So....WE HAVE EVERYTHING LINED UP; WE JUST NEED TO SET A DATE AN TIME.
bILLY
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
I am even jumping off the deep end and springing for the $49 bucks for the software.
How about 8:00 PM Eastern to 9:00 PM Monday night 6/26/2023? That would make it at 7:00 Central, 6:00 Mountain, and 5:00 West Coast??? This may be a little early for the Nanny state...lol
I will PM or email DAN and Steve also. We can record the session and post it.
DAN AND STEVE are you guys seeing this??? Call me.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
If you are interested I can do a demo walkthrough of Scaler via zoom for you. We can start with your Fragments of a Dream chords. Or I may have connections to get you a timed-demo version to play with. Let me know if either sounds interesting?
Dan, this is all good stuff. In these last few posts I've already learned from you more about what Scaler is than the videos I've watched on the subject.
I'm in if you want to host this.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
Playable RealTracks Set 5
RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new user interface in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®! This modern GUI redesign offers a sleek new look with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, and a smoother workflow. The brand-new side toolbar puts track selection, the MultiPicker Library, and other essential tools right at your fingertips. Plus, our upgraded Multi-View lets you layer multiple windows without overlap, giving you a highly flexible workspace. Many windows—including Tracks, Piano Roll, and more—have been redesigned for improved usability and a cleaner, more intuitive interface, and more!
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you over the phone. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday, and 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST Saturday. We are closed Sunday. You can also send us your questions via email.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you on our Live Chat or by email. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday; 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST (GMT -8) Saturday; Closed Sunday.
Norton Music
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean