Originally Posted By: floyd jane
In order to "compare", I set the volume of the the two tracks so that the vocals were as close to the same level as I could make them (by ear)


THAT is a fantastic idea. I know people who have done this but never thought to USE it! Duh! What a simple but effective way to get instant insight to what needs to be at what level roughly. THANK YOU!

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The Halsey vocal seems to "float" slightly above or around-and-in-front-of the track.
Your (female) vocal seems to sit-in-the-mix - like a Rock song.


I totally understand where you are coming from. Halsey's vocals are the center piece on a mostly empty table. These vocals are the center piece but on a table filled for a buffet. lol

Seriously though, this is somewhat intentional; not because I don't like showcased vocals but because I felt the need to hide them. They were out of tune and tuning made them sound less than stellar. You can still hear the tuning obviously, but not to the degree of how they sound when they are by far the most prominent thing you hear. I'm thinking of posting the vocals only or whatever, to see how people would go about fixing them as best as they could be. It would be a useful skill to know. I think my patience wasn't there in going in and tweaking with melodyne. That's painful for me and still sounds awful.

Thanks for being willing to say something because I never know what I don't hear until it's point out! That's where learning begins. smile

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(Your rap/male vocal does have that wrap-around quality)
Conventional wisdom is that Country vocals "sit up front".
In those terms the Halsey vocal seems to land in between those 2 (Rock vs. Country).


Right on. The rap was a strong vocal take so it was doubled, spread, and had various effects to let it surround a bit more. I wrapped the rap?

I do know what you mean about Halsey's sitting between country and rock. I think pop producers have been doing this as some of the artists are cross overs and somewhat create an expected or signature sound to their vocals. I could be wrong. Great observation!

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Comparing the two directly, overall, the reference song keeps the individual instruments "distinct" (yet blended).
MISTAKE has more of a blended feel to the whole track. Especially when the Bass is playing (there is no real Bass in the Halsey song - which helps that "distinct" thing).
EQ and compression would likely play the biggest part in making a track "distinct" or "blended".
One GUESS is that your choice of tracks have more similar frequencies than the choice in the Halsey production - making them "blend" more.
(That is difficult to pin down without having the tracks in front of you in a DAW).


This is where I'm severely lacking! I know exactly what you mean about the sound yet do not know what to do about it. What you mentioned for why that happens or doesn't happen I wouldn't have known. My general feeling has been, "that's just a big bowl of low end mush." I tried a few things and ended up with it sounding worse. So I figured if what I tried made it worse, the opposite would probably sound better...and that myth got busted. That's part of what made me post. Out of frustration I decided to call in an intervention. smile

I've been messing a bit with what you've said, still without much success. Do you feel it would be more beneficial to post all the tracks and ask people what they would do? I feel like that asking so much of people...even if they are willing. I have no idea how many questions I would have come from it! lol

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The Kick in H (Halsey) pounds your chest with each hit and is then teamed with other percussion. (They even highlight that in the video)
The Kick in M (MISTAKE) has a different feel - more of a "flow". Assigning those rapid hits to a hat might give the Kick more "space" - but then that is a different thing. But that is one difference between the productions. The lack of other type hits (snaps, claps, funky snares) in M adds to the sense of "flow".


I probably shouldn't have posted this as I "I'm trying to get it to sound like this" and instead said "Here is an artist that does songs in the style I am looking to do. Not necessarily this specific song though."

Taking into account your comments though, I have been relistening to her music and others like hers to see what I like about it. More specifically, what makes the song work. The arrangements are very sparse in comparison. Have I brought too much orchestra arranging into my simple pop songs? Have I jammed too many ideas that I could use one OR the other and chosen BOTH too many times? That's a really good possibility.

Here is a weird piece to the puzzle for me though. The instrumental track on it's own seems MUCH more distinct, clear, and uncluttered to me. There is still a lot going on, but once the vocals and vocals effects are added I end up with a S*^t smoothie. Sorry, that just how I felt in this moment. I've never used that phrase before. lol

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On a sepearte note (no pun intended), the H Kick has a bit of "tone" to it (like an 808). Your Kick seems to be "flat" in comparison (that is subjective, of course).


Agreed. I tinkered with an 808 and lost the percussive definition of the faster kicks as a result. Thinking about it more, I may have to look for places that are not so fast and add a tone in here and there. I like me some 808 if the song/genre calls for it.

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All that being said...
A SUPER COOL production!!! Impressive. Amazing. Superlatives galore!!!....
It would be nice to know what parts (of the production) are BIAB.
You have talent. (Talents, really).

That's very nice of you to say. I really enjoy production. I always have. To me, if production is playing soccer, mixing is the kick to my shin. Maybe groin. It takes me out of the game for a bit.
Just curious if you went through that at all as a song writer? If so, did you ever end up enjoying the mixing side, or do you still see it as a necessary evil? To be clear, I love great mixes and am in aw of them. I will flat our say I love 'em. It's just not something I look forward to. And by look forward to I mean, attempt and get sucky results, or have to pay for the. What a complainer, right? Lol.

Anyway, thank you so much for taking the time to listen and comment with your suggestions and insights. That really does mean a lot to me.

Chad (Hope that makes it easier)

TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.