Just to put things in perspective here's the current song I'm working on. Bass is a short scale KnockHofner, (slightly deeper tone than a full or long scale as theirs less tension on the strings) into a Behringer BDI21 but only as a passive DI to covert it to a balanced signal as I have a lot of M & R Interference at this place. The bass is treated as per the picture. The drive comes in after the intro 1st verse...it doesn't make the tone "dirty" (though it does sound a bit that way solo)...it provided some harmonics and upper frequency noise to allow the bass to sit more clearly in the busy mix of the chorus. I needed some clarity to cut through as the chorus is busy and the verse has the bass, for the most part, not playing the root note. Latest Song WIP Lots of compression on the source bass track - stacked so that no one of them has to do too much work and end up "pumping" The Deathcore one really levels things out and adds a little "colour" while the PSP Vintage Warmer2 adds a little "warmth"/tape saturation to it's flvour of compression. The drive VST is a free generic one but, like most drive pedals/VSTs, cuts a fair bit of bottom end so it blends easily.
Last edited by rayc; 09/03/2306:55 PM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
This is a great discussion, thanks go to all that are participating.
You're not wrong to distinguish between them, but they're far closer related than perhaps you realise. The sound you get from plucking a string contains many harmonics. They're caused in part by the fact of the pluck being a non-linear stimulation that results in predominantly even-order harmonics that tend to sound pleasant to us. There are also sympathetic vibrations in other strings and in the body of the instrument. All those sounds also tend to decay at different rates. So far we're agreed, I think, though I would argue that the very fact of that pluck is strictly a distortion.
I think we are mainly in agreement here. I'll amplify your point a bit. Any instrument made of wood, glue, metalics and plastics is going to produce a complex sound map made up of compound and overlapping waveforms. My bass has an alder body and a rosewood fingerboard. These and other design details made by the manufacturer shape the complex tones that are produced and these are desired; it's what a bass guitar is. And the type of pickups and strings shape the overall tone much further. Personally, I prefer flatwounds.
Edit: A point where we may not completly align is "the pluck is strictly a distortion". From an engineering perspective, the plucking is the mechanical input to the system and the distortion is an output. If the input is in the form of a single pluck then it could be described (mathematically or in other ways) as a step function or a transient impulse/pulse and the system would ring out (or respond) and eventually decay. If the plucking is repetitive such as a sequence of 1/4, 8th or 16th notes then this input can be described as a forcing function with much different characteristics in it's response output. Both cases can contain distortion in the output. Of course inputs such as plucking with a finger, sliding or plucking with a pick will, in general, produce different system responses. Note, I didn't read this per se anywhere. Rather, the bass guitar and it's associated amplifier is an electro-mechanical-acoustic system which will be governed and described by systems theory.
In "another life" my peers considered me an SME (subject-matter-expert) in a few technical areas. One area is applied vibration. Terms for me that were as common as "hello" and "the" were transmissibility functions, Q, fn1, fn2, fn3, natural and applied damping treatments, tri-axial accelerometers, modal analysis, transient response, vibration isolators, single amplitude displacement, Power-Spectral-Density curves, FFT, compound spring-mass-damper systems, MIL-STD-810, S-N diagrams and mathematical modelling of the above. The list goes on and on.
One of my all-time favorite projects involved flying in a Boeing 737 test aircraft doing rollercoasters at 35,000 feet over the Pacific Ocean for the purpose of acquiring thermal, shock and vibration data on and around a flight-critical engine component we had design authority for. So I'm fortunate to bring an engineering background to my journey of music study even if, as the years go by, I'm forgetting more and more of what I once knew . . . happens to us all if we live long enough.
I think we'd also agree that clipping is a distortion and can be quite unwanted. Absolutely.
Where you perhaps don't agree is that, for example, a valve amplifier, even when well below the clipping level will introduce other sounds that are not a part of the basic sound of the instrument. This I have no experience in. I don't think my Fender amp has "valve amplification", but I don't know for sure.
What I'm saying, then, is don't fear all of those colourations. Even with a subjectively nice clean sound, there will be some present.Agreed. The distortion (not coloration) that I prefer to remove in some recordings is that gritty, dirty sound that you don't hear on the Rain On Me track.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
What I'm saying, then, is don't fear all of those colourations. Even with a subjectively nice clean sound, there will be some present.
Agreed. The distortion (not coloration) that I prefer to remove in some recordings is that gritty, dirty sound that you don't hear on the Rain On Me track.
The main place where we view things differently is in how/where colouration and distortion overlap. I've been trying to think of a good mechanical simile, but I've failed to think of anything in the mechanical domain that's really a convincing analogue of what I see in the electrical domain. Gas springs and therefore speakers in small cabinets exhibit the effect long before they 'bottom' and cause that coarseness, but it's hard to explain, even then, the effect. "column of air" instruments exhibit it.
You mention FFTs, so you'll understand well spectral data. Even-order harmonics tend to sound like part of the intended sound ... complementary; sawtooth-like waves. Odd harmonics are those that sound harsh; square-like waves, and the ones it's clear you definitely don't want. Worse still by far are intermodulation products.
I don't know if +++ this chart +++ this chart helps explain why odd-order, notably the higher ones, (clipping) harmonics can sound so bad. Even heavily distorted guitars try to avoid the worst of the upper harmonics. A small amount of some can help.
There's a good Sound-On-Sound article +++ here +++ that may or may not help you in getting the sound you want and may better explain than me what I've been trying to say.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
But what I think I’m learning from Kenny is that the sequence order matters. At 4:19 he talks about EQing after compressing.
The reason is, and it ends up being quite logical, if you boost and cut EQ before compression the compressor will attempt to level out the boost and cut...it will squash the boost & try to lift the cut. In a way compression will undo much of what the EQin does. Yep, this makes sense, I'm beginning to get this now. I will definately make this change in my signal diagram when I revise it.
Realistically your amp isn't necessary. You'll find a great clean sound straight from bass to interface. You're probably right on this, but I really like the sound of my amp when I record or practice.
I'm not a fan of normalizing. I try to get a decent level on the way in and if I'm not loud enough I can lift the level ITB norm'ing will lift the noise floor as will raining the volume but normalizing reduces "head room" or the appearance of it anyway. Compression, EQ et al add a lot to a signal so I like to do those things without that process. I used to do it back in my dim darks but too often didn't like the sound I ended up with after processing. There's probably no logic in this but it is a process that ought to be unnecessary in 16/24/32 bit recording. The last issue for me is your export to MP3. I need to research this a bit. I don't follow "I can lift the level ITB norm'ing will lift the noise floor".
It's a compressed, lossy format that doesn't decompress on playback, (unlike FLAC), so you're losing some of your very low bass in that - nothing that most folk will hear but - the loss and the compression undo a little of what you have achieved in processing.Alos need to research what this means.
Unless you have really bad internet you should upload as a .wav file or equiv. Soundcloud adds it's own compression/processing so the better quality the file & the closer it is to their preferred LUF, (current wisdom - White Sea Studio - is that slightly over is better than under as the processing also lifts and that can be more damaging), level the less undoing occurs there and the better your bass will sound. I do happen to have poor internet, not even full broadband yet; they keep saying "2 more years". But I recently discovered the M4A format. From what I understand it is higher quality than MP3 and is 40% smaller in file size. So far I haven't seen any incompatibilites with it yet.
What I'm piecing together in terms of importance to the listener regarding bass EQ and mixing is the following. 1. Volume Automation is top dog. No matter how well you process your bass waveform a volume that is too high or too low is bad.
2. EQ is 2nd in importance. The super-low end mud and the high frequency artifacts need to be attenuated.
3. Compression comes in 3rd.
4. Everthing else is less important.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
A great tip from the Mastering Engineer I use is that low end bass tends to get unruly around 70hz & 120Hz. He suggested/recommends reducing these areas - fairly narrowly & by ear - to help tame things.
Compression can, if used correctly, do some of what automation does...just need to ensure that the automatic "make up gain" isn't on. Another fairly useful tool is the free plugin VOLA2 - it works rather like a "vocal rider".
In Reaper there's an excellent automation form called pre FX volume. This is great because it controls the level of things going into the various VSTs/plugs on that track. The BEST bit, for me, is that this control visually alters the wave form image in the track to reflect what is done. TOO LOUD in one spots can be, visually, addressed by making the wave form section equal to the others - then an auditory check follows of course.
ITB - in the box
Noise floor - normalizing will lift the noise as much as it will lift the music. Tiny click, pops & interference from lights, the screen etc. will also be lifted. If the normalizing is done as a common gain across the track or section that's probably not going to be too much of an issue but some normalizing lifts everything to the it max level so that the noise in a quiet section could become as loud as a played note.
BIAB use WMA files, (I don't think it's WMA Lossless), which are decompressed/converted into .wav files to work in the BIAB mixer as well as your DAW. The .wav is a format that's easy to work with but having been WMA has A LOT of data was removed based on the usual psychoacoustic standards used etc.and is no longer present in the .wav. FLAC is a compression/storage system that unpacks "on the fly" when being played back...it takes some more CPU grunt, is supposed to be full original wav quality and doesn't reduce file size by anywhere near the up to 90% an MP3 will do so isn't hugely popular - particularly now that storage is cheap & bandwidth isn't nearly as restricted for streaming up & downloads etc. How your MP3 sounds will depend on the selected quality as well as the type of compressor (each has its own cut offs). Generally speaking a LAME 320 MP3 is considered to sound the best to most listeners but stuff below 1Khz and above 18Khz is less resolved and has more noise.
Export your track as a 24 bit .wav file then again as your usual MP3. Load them into you DAW and look at a spec. anayliser to see if there's a difference AFTER having listened to them by A B ing.
M4A is an Apple thing so I, inherently, don't trust it. All the stuff I read about it was comparing stuff compressed at 128kbs and that's really not a great sound in any format. Nevertheless this summary is pretty tidy.
"Window's Media Audio is Microsoft's contribution to high quality, lossy audio compression. Like most other new formats, M4A and WMA outperform MP3 in terms of quality and compression, particularly at lower bitrates. Consequently, WMA is probably the format of choice for streaming at low bandwidths and preferred for Windows compatibility. .. However, M4A is less platform restrictive than WMA as the latter is notably unplayable in Apple's iPod [that's the proprietary nature of Apple that I distrust]. MP3 (MPEG-3 Audio), a widely supported format, uses lossy compression to achieve reasonable audio quality at smaller file sizes. It's compatible with most devices and media players."(By Abby Poole ｜Last updated on August 31, 2023).
You like the sound of you amp which is a great start but how that is achieved in the modelling software may also be the start of your problems. May not be too!
Last edited by rayc; 09/04/2303:59 PM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Melodyne Studio is very expensive but one can pick it up much cheaper during a sale. I actually got it very inexpensively during an upgrade sale. I upgraded from the Editor version to the Studio version. If it wasn't such a great deal I would have never upgraded. Don't ask what I paid as it was quite a while ago and I forgot but it was nowhere's near the asking price even with the cost of the Editor, which I also got on sale.
I'm no longer allowed to go caroling at the psych hospital. I guess Do You Hear What I Hear was a bad song choice!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
The main place where we view things differently is in how/where colouration and distortion overlap. I look at this (like many things in life) as being on a spectrum. Where does "coloration" end and "distortion" begin. Ask a bunch of musicians and you'll probably get a bunch of different answers. That's why I gave Rain On Me as an example of what I consider fat, distortion-free bass.
You mention FFTs, so you'll understand well spectral data. Even-order harmonics tend to sound like part of the intended sound ... complementary; sawtooth-like waves. Odd harmonics are those that sound harsh; square-like waves, and the ones it's clear you definitely don't want. Worse still by far are intermodulation products.
Yes, I am well aquainted with FFT (Fast Fourier Transform). Here is a copy of a couple pages out of one of my engineering handbooks. I apologize for the poor quality, my handbook refused to sit flat on the scanner glass. What I have labelled "A" is a time-domain measurement with duration less than 250 ms. The Y-axis is acceleration, but could easily be velocity, displacement, force, electrical current, strain, pressure or other engineering quantity. So this transient signal could be the electrical current generated by a bass guitar pickup as a result of a sting being plucked. Of course, this signal (perhaps converted to voltage) is then sent to the amplifier to be shaped and amplified. Pickup design and amplifier design could fill many books, just like the required steps to process vibration data could fill many books.
What I have labeled "B" is the result of an FFT algorithm being fed the data from "A" and is in the frequency-domain. The peaks are of great interest to the engineer involved in interpreting this plot. So is the fact there is no significant energy beyond 2 kHz. Studio One and many other DAWs have this capability and the screenshot in the original post is such an example.
As Team Lead on the Boeing project I previously described, it was my responsibility to oversee the processing of the multi-giga byte, tri-axial accelerometer data set collected during the flight test. Before the flight test I needed to learn the mathematics behind the FFT algorithm so that I could write a custom program to process the data we would collect. It took me a couple of months of 12 hour days to understand the math, write and debug the code and finally validate my program against well-understood test cases. Then I assembled a small group of data processors (4 and a half junior engineers) that I could train to use my code and to do the actual processing. The end result was a set of laboratory-ready, broadband random vibration PSD spectra/profiles from 20 to 3200 Hz that when applied to our product would simulate (in the lab) an entire lifetime's worth (measured in years) of mechanical fatigue and other damage. The time required to do this lab simulation on our military-grade shake table was measured in days. This allowed us to quickly identify and fix the flaw in our design. To tell you the truth, I miss this stuff, but equally true is I'm fascinated by music and the side of my brain that music lights up
I don't know if +++ this chart +++ this chart helps explain why odd-order, notably the higher ones, (clipping) harmonics can sound so bad. Even heavily distorted guitars try to avoid the worst of the upper harmonics. A small amount of some can help.
There's a good Sound-On-Sound article +++ here +++ that may or may not help you in getting the sound you want and may better explain than me what I've been trying to say. Thanks for the web links, they're good background info.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
We're going round in circles a bit here and I'm not sure it's really helping.
Perhaps I'm approaching this from the wrong direction. If on my keyboard I play a C1 I'll get a note that's mostly C1 with some harmonics due, e.g., to where the hammer hits the string. (On a piano, I'll actually get multiple very-close tones, because each string for one note is tuned very slightly differently, a kind of chorus effect.)
If I want to add more richness to the sound, I might play a C2 at the same time. Probably a little less loud, but still there. Maybe also a little C3 ... why not, it's all still the same note. To some extent it can be done on a bass also, depending on where on the string you pluck or hit. I little fifth also richens things up
There tone are all closely related to the original C1. In this case I've added them by playing more notes, but they can also be added by distortion, provided it's done gently. A little bit of low order harmonics can be added just by going through a valve that doesn't have large amounts of negative feedback, or by some cabinets, or by tape saturation. The important thing for fatness/fullness is moderation. You definitely saying you don't want harshness, but gently distortion that add just a little low-order harmonics add richness.
When you look at suggestions from Mario, Ray and Dave, some of what they're suggesting is doing just that. Adding a little, subtle, distortion. Valves, tape, transformers, cabinets and older compressors create a small amount of distortion provided they're used gently. Over-drive anything and it'll sound rough. The important thing is moderation, particularly where there is more than one note being played as then you get multiplication products that usually sound awful (to my ears ... some metal fans may well disagree, though it's worth noting that "power chords" keep that effect to more moderate levels).
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
BassThumper, when Gordon Scott mentions valves he is referring to vacuum tubes.
Some Fender bass amplifiers use vacuum tubes while other Fender amplifiers use transistors. Vacuum tube amplifiers are sometimes referred to as "analog" amplifiers while transistor amplifiers are sometimes called "solid state" amplifiers.
This +++ Fender Rumble +++ amplifier is a "solid state" amplifier so it uses transistors instead of vacuum tubes.
I had a listen to the Utub vid in your O.P. That's almost certainly a synth bass with time & spacial modulation. If it's an actual bass then it's had most of the string & finger noise as well as upper mids removed leaving just enough to give spacial clues for the stereo image.VERY heavily processed.
The older amongst us have ears trained/calibrated by tube/valve amplification via radio/TV as well as LPs all of which have characteristics described by terms like warmth, saturation or fatness. The reality is that most of that is caused via distortion introduced by the valves/tubes/LP surface and today by deliberately created solid state, tube/valve or digital means. The dirt added is usually pleasing to our ears as it meets expectations and it involves a lot of harmonics that give a "richer" fatter tone.
An attempt to achieve this on the cheap but seemingly "trad" means is the inclusion of a starved plate tube/valve in a solid state circuit. becasue the tube isn't running warm or hot it won't generate the kind of harmonics or compression that is pleasing but they add some of their native noise to the circuit. In many cases the signal isn't even passed through the valve/tube - just some current to get some noise which is blended in. This rarely works well and simple solid state circuits can do it better - digital processes even more so. The attached shots of EQ & an amp sim suggest a Marshall amp which is a tube/valve amp which produces plenty of saturation/warmth even when not being pushed. The digital version of that would seek to replicate that. So I can really get my head around this please let me know what digital model you're using in your amp. We can assess what that does for your signal and what would, therefore, be unnecessary down stream.
Last edited by rayc; 09/05/2302:30 PM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
M4A is an Apple thing so I, inherently, don't trust it. All the stuff I read about it was comparing stuff compressed at 128kbs and that's really not a great sound in any format.
I don't use Apple, I never liked their proprietary/costly business model. Plus over a 30 year career, I never saw a single engineering dept. use Apple computers. Vax, Unix, Windows and various mainframe supercomputers such as Cray but never Apple. Apple has always been an innovative company but I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Windows guy.
I understand Apple did develop the M4A format to succeed MP3 and so far I'm seeing no problems with it. Studio One can export in that format, Windows Media Player can play them and I understand SoundCloud will except them.
Based on new info acquired, I updated my signal diagram.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
BassThumper, when Gordon Scott mentions valves he is referring to vacuum tubes.
I am ... is that a British English vs American English difference? I guess so.
Quite a lot of software will simulated the effects of vacuum tubes, cabinets, tape saturation and the like. One doesn't necessarily have to have the real thing in the chain to get a similar effect, though cab-to-guitar feedback is likely still best done the traditional way. That, though, is a whole different discussion. for some other thread, some other time.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
We're going round in circles a bit here and I'm not sure it's really helping.
When you look at suggestions from Mario, Ray and Dave, some of what they're suggesting is doing just that. Adding a little, subtle, distortion. Valves, tape, transformers, cabinets and older compressors create a small amount of distortion provided they're used gently. Over-drive anything and it'll sound rough. The important thing is moderation, particularly where there is more than one note being played as then you get multiplication products that usually sound awful (to my ears ... some metal fans may well disagree, though it's worth noting that "power chords" keep that effect to more moderate levels).
I agree, you and I are still not communicating as tightly as we could.
Let me try this. You keep mentioning valves and tubes and now tape, transformers and other (what I consider) older technology.
You do realize that I don't have tubes, etc. in my signal chain? Do they even build bass amps with tubes anymore?
And when I say "tubes" I mean vacuum tubes as in the 1960 vintage TV sets.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
BassThumper, when Gordon Scott mentions valves he is referring to vacuum tubes.
Some Fender bass amplifiers use vacuum tubes while other Fender amplifiers use transistors. Vacuum tube amplifiers are sometimes referred to as "analog" amplifiers while transistor amplifiers are sometimes called "solid state" amplifiers.
This +++ Fender Rumble +++ amplifier is a "solid state" amplifier so it uses transistors instead of vacuum tubes.
Yes, I'm trying to get clarification if Gordon thinks I have vacuum tubes in my signal chain . . . because I don't.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
I had a listen to the Utub vid in your O.P. That's almost certainly a synth bass with time & spacial modulation. If it's an actual bass then it's had most of the string & finger noise as well as upper mids removed leaving just enough to give spacial clues for the stereo image.VERY heavily processed.
OK, so now that I have confirmation that you listened to the target tone I'm seeking, or at least trying to approximate, the question becomes how can I approximate that clean, fat tone?
Am I wrong to assume that it can be approximated?
The older amongst us have ears trained/calibrated by tube/valve amplification via radio/TV as well as LPs all of which have characteristics described by terms like warmth, saturation or fatness.
I have no such calibration.
The reality is that most of that is caused via distortion introduced by the valves/tubes/LP surface and today by deliberately created solid state, tube/valve or digital means.
Ahhh, we might be getting somewhere. What precisely do you mean by "digital means" ?
The dirt added is usually pleasing to our ears as it meets expectations and it involves a lot of harmonics that give a "richer" fatter tone. Right, I'm seeking this tone precisely because it is pleasing.
An attempt to achieve this on the cheap but seemingly "trad" means is the inclusion of a starved plate tube/valve in a solid state circuit. becasue the tube isn't running warm or hot it won't generate the kind of harmonics or compression that is pleasing but they add some of their native noise to the circuit. In many cases the signal isn't even passed through the valve/tube - just some current to get some noise which is blended in. This rarely works well and simple solid state circuits can do it better - digital processes even more so. I'm not following this. What is "trad"? And I don't have valve/tubes in my signal chain.
So I can really get my head around this please let me know what digital model you're using in your amp. We can assess what that does for your signal and what would, therefore, be unnecessary down stream. Mario asked essentially the same question. I answered it as best I could in post #775189
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Yes, I'm trying to get clarification if Gordon thinks I have vacuum tubes in my signal chain . . . because I don't.
I wouldn't know whether or not you have them. It doesn't really matter.
The important thing is the soft/gentle/subtle types of distortion that they and the other things can add into the sound. All of those things have good simulations for some time.
This started mostly because I was trying to explain how/why not all distortion necessarily bad.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Bass Thumper, I'm sorry I misread your amplifier; your amplifier is a Fender Bronco and you are using the Fender Rumble amplifier preset.
No problem at all Jim, Thanks for jumping in to help move this along; there is much I need to learn on this subject. And with British, Australian and American English at play (and btw, let's be honest here, the Brits have the correct mother tounge even if they do like warm beer ) combined with as many time zones and different levels of experience, mis-communication is bound to happen. It's the smart fellow/gal that can detect when miscommunication happens. Also, this is my first exposure to the term "valve" in this context.
You're right. My amp is the 40W Fender Bronco, no longer in production and I have several bass model presets available on this amp that can be further shaped by the onboard effects. Right now I'm favoring the Rumble preset, but that could easily change. Details on these settings were written above.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
I spent a while trying to get details on the Rumble setting of the Bronco. Lots of info on the Rumble & LOTS of info on the Bronco but not much on the Bronco's Rumble setting - I tried listening to demos but most were bad set ups or the player slapped & thumb thumped.
It's a solid state amplifier with digital models of many valve/tube amp included so the odds are there is, quite likely, some saturation/warmth/drive/ in the models. Why would you model one of them without it? However the Rumble is a solid state amp so there's likely none of those things in it unless introduced deliberately to the digital or solid state circuit.
I have a large Marshall 100w all valve Superbass MkII amp and it does clean very nicely but there's always a little tube in it. Usually played trough a 4x12 whih is a BIG sound.I also have an 80watt Jade Clubman bass amp that is all solid state with a footswitchable "distortion" circuit added to assist with a little poke in a live mix. The Jade is played through an HUGE Etone box with a single 15" speaker so it moved a lot of air and can get a very big bottom end in a room.
From your settings description you've cranked the bottom end, scooped the mids & lowered the top end. Looks like you'd need a gentle compressor on the way to your interface and then a gentler one in the computer after which some EQ will be the next step.
Maybe you should try the Lemmy Setting - he completely rolled of top & bottom while cranking the mids. JOKE of course.
Def a case of mild compression on the way in though as this will give you a move even recording to start to tweak. One of the most difficult aspects of recording and mixing bass is the unevenness of level due to the strings, variations in hand etc. I'd have thought the Bassman setting would've been already in the zone but I'm sure you've tried all of that.
One of the things in the vid's audio is that the bass is panned to the side so that it's not competing with anything for the bottom freqs AND there's no problem with it offerings some gentle high end for spatial clues. Panning it centre would've lost out on both through competition and the end result wouldn't sound as it does. In other words if you can approximate THAT TONE in isolation you may well lose it in a mix knowing, as we do, that many bassist resort to adding grit/warmth/saturation/harmonics to their stellar solo tone help their bass "cut through" the mix. Can you achieve it? Probably but, I suspect, you'd need a mix that replicated the one in the vid to leave you the space and tonality for it to work.
Last edited by rayc; 09/06/2305:26 PM.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
All of those things have good simulations for some time.
I'm not following you again. "good simulations for some time" ?
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
Playable RealTracks Set 4
RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you over the phone. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday, and 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST Saturday. We are closed Sunday. You can also send us your questions via email.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you on our Live Chat or by email. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday; 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST (GMT -8) Saturday; Closed Sunday.
and I have several bass model presets available on this amp that can be further shaped by the onboard effects. Right now I'm favoring the Rumble preset, but that could easily change. Details on these settings were written above.
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