Whether I listen or not listen, does not have anything to do with this. Nor is that a solution to anything. It appears that folks here do not know what respectful and disrespectful even mean.
Yeah. It appears that some don't....
Byron Dickens
BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency.
Yes, that is making more sense. All this business about un-baking the cake is new to me. I did know about Spleeter and derivatives, but I didn't think they had progressed so far.
Although technically impressive, I put this usage of AI in the same category as a gimmick or low-brow entertainment. So what if someone painstakingly copied a Sinatra sound, reproduced his voice and changed the lyrics for a single song. The real "gold" is for an application to seamlessly do this for any song with the user having full edit control of the output; and my prediction is that some company will provide exactly this within 5 years.
BiaB and AI could be a perfect marriage to allow the creation of fully editable custom styles and chord sheets (much like we have today) based on giving it a target audio sample. So if you want a Sinatra style, feed it a Sinatra audio sample. If you want a Frank Zappa, Chicago, chanting Monks meditation music or any other style, just supply the appropriate audio sample and the output would be a ready-to use SGU file. The days of scrolling thru and auditioning hundreds of pre-programmed styles would be replaced with laser focussing on the style you want.
This technology needs to move from the novelty/consumer/listener domain to the creative/editable/musician domain.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
So what if someone painstakingly copied a Sinatra sound, reproduced his voice and changed the lyrics for a single song.
In 2005, Paul Anka released on the album "Rock Swings". The album is covers of rock songs done in the big-band style.
The arrangement you're hearing in the video was created Brad Dechter, and played by studio musicians.
All that was done without AI.
The only thing that AI did was:
Split out the vocal from the backing track; and
Replace the timbre of Anka's voice with Sinatra's.
While that's technologically impressive, it's orders of magnitude less than the sort of thing you are describing.
Originally Posted by Bass Thumper
...and my prediction is that some company will provide exactly this within 5 years.
You've got expertise in the field to base this prediction on?
Because that's not the sort of predictions I hear from people who are actually trying to accomplish this. They're saying there's a world of difference between working with temporally stable pixels and time-changing audio.
Predicting that audio will follow the same timeline as AI generative graphics ignores the huge difference between them.
David answered my question. The band in this example is a real band with real musicians and a very talented arranger who has mastered the style of Nelson Riddle. Not easy!
Eddie, I should have been more precise. It is this thought that AI emulated a real big band playing a Nelson Riddle arrangement that I was skeptical of. Apparently we are not there yet. I’m glad because I write big band jazz charts.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
I wonder... what musicians of 1890's thought of Pianola(Player piano)? Was it something similar to what some people tend to think now about effects/influence of AI on music?
"an inventor in Germany, Edwin Welte, was working on a player which would reproduce all the aspects of the performance automatically, so that his machine would play back a recorded performance exactly as if the original pianist were sitting at the piano keyboard. Known as a Reproducing Piano, this device, the Welte-Mignon, was launched in 1904. It created new marketing opportunities, as manufacturers could now get the foremost pianists and composers of the day to record their performances on a piano roll. This allowed owners of player pianos to experience such a performance in their own homes on their own instruments, exactly as the original pianist had played it." - Wiki.
I certainly admire those skills that came before our time, but somehow would not be so certain that their delivery matched to quality of today's delivery.
Regardless, given time, these things will just continue to improve.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
I play music live for a living in a duo with Mrs. Notes.
Most of my competitors are using Karaoke tracks. I make my own backing tracks. Sometimes with the help of BiaB, sometimes from scratch, depending on the song and how close I want to cover it. It's a lot more work than downloading a K track.
I guess I could accuse the karaoke track duos of cheating, but what would be the point?
My goal is to sound better than my competitors. I think my tracks sound better. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
Regarding bands using The Wrecking Crew, The Swampers, or other studio musicians to record their songs, I suppose that could be cheating too. But it sells records. The bands then have to learn the licks the studio musicians played when they go live. Even The Beatles couldn't reproduce many of their songs live. Is that cheating?
I've done some, but not a great deal of studio recording, but enough to know there is a difference between playing in the fish tank or playing in stage. Some bands also have the studio skills, but not all do.
I'm amazed at the deep fakes, and feel that ethically, there should be some notification. But I know even if one was required, it wouldn't be universally used, and there is no way to enforce it.
Respect? Isn't imitation the sincerest form of flattery?
When The Knickerbockers recorded “Lies”, it was so close in style that most people thought the song on the radio was actually recorded by The Beatles. Actually, I thought the band was tighter than the early Beatles.
We aren't going to answer the ethical questions here, although it's interesting to discuss them.
Me? I'm going to be amazed by the technology, and make a mental note not to believe what I see or hear. Then I'll go about my daily life, trying to get as much pleasure out of each day, for however many I have left. I have gigs to play, new songs to learn, food in the fridge, a roof over my head, a wonderful wife, I woke up this morning, and everything else is extra.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Last edited by Notes Norton; 11/18/2307:27 AM. Reason: speling misteaks
If one form of backing tracks is cheating, then ALL forms of backing tracks is cheating. You making your own doesn't elevate you to some higher plane of "cheating", despite your high opinion of yourself. (You failed to brag about your 15-20 gigs per month. You slipping in your old age? And the cruise ships. Don't forget the cruise ships.) Backing tracks in any form still results in keyboard and horn players being unemployed.
There was a female duo here that sang over tracks. Nobody cared because they were both very good singers, and both extremely hot to a level where none of the men in the audience actually came to hear them sing. Their tracks were nothing more than a mutual producer friend removing the vocals with software, so they literally sang over the original band sans vocals. Cheating? Or just a shorter way to get to the same finish line every backing track group gets to eventually?
Several years back I was meeting a guy who wanted me to do some keyboards for him. The place we met had a small stage and there was a guy setting up. I paid no attention to him beyond noticing movement on that little platform. When he started I looked over and saw he was playing bass. BASS!!! How DARE he present himself as a solo act when all he did was play bass along with backing tracks? I mean guitar solos were tracks!! Short of putting a bass solo into every song, what is entertaining about watching somebody play the easiest instrument in the world of backing tracks? I mean, it's BASS! As I once told the bass player from one of my bands when he started to get too full of himself about how good "we" sounded, "Dude, WE (gesturing in a circle toward the actual real, actual, playing pieces like the horns and the keyboards) sound good. YOU are just here. If you were to have a stroke and die before a show, there are probably 5 or 6 people right in the audience who could come up and play your parts." A bass player can be replaced by the keyboard player's left hand. But by my own logic, that would also be cheating too, because iIf you want bass, hire a bass player (and pay him 3/4 scale). If you want horns, hire horns.
It becomes clearer and clearer why I can't keep a band together, doesn't it?
Y'all ain't seen her yet? Wait till you see her jamming with Steve Vai. On stage.
Byron Dickens
BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency.
BTW Eddie, since you asked. When we did cruise ships, we used the backing tracks I made myself, and set all-time revenue records in the lounge we played in. We were rewarded with a passenger sized cabin with a porthole, allowed to sell cassette tapes to passengers, and lasted 3 years on a 3-week contract which ended when Mrs. Notes' mom got sick, and we needed to jump-ship to become her caretaker.
But that's all off-topic
I mentioned various things that could be considered cheating and answered, “what would be the point?” That was to compare it with subbing Sinatra's voice over Anka's tracks.
Cheating or not isn't the question. My conclusion was:
Quote
We aren't going to answer the ethical questions here, although it's interesting to discuss them.
Me? I'm going to be amazed by the technology, and make a mental note not to believe what I see or hear. Then I'll go about my daily life, trying to get as much pleasure out of each day, for however many I have left. I have gigs to play, new songs to learn, food in the fridge, a roof over my head, a wonderful wife, I woke up this morning, and everything else is extra.
So I guess you missed the point.
OT, years later when they sold the ship, the entertainment purchaser on the ships told me that our revenue record stood the test of time, and was the highest on that ship, and her two sister ships, ever. He asked if we wanted to come back on. I had so many land gigs, and we were still taking care of mom, so I had to say, "no"
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll also keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
From overviews of new features and walkthroughs of the 202 new RealTracks, to highlights of XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAKs 18, the 2025 49-PAK, and in-depth tutorials — you’ll find everything you need to explore what’s new in Band-in-a-Box® 2025.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac with savings of up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special—available until July 31, 2025! Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Mac 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.
If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!
One of our representatives will be happy to help you over the phone. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday, and 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST Saturday. We are closed Sunday. You can also send us your questions via email.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you on our Live Chat or by email. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday; 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST (GMT -8) Saturday; Closed Sunday.
Norton Music
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean