For some reason, audio stretching does seem to have occurred. Whenever I've had problems like this, it's usually because the audio has been "acidized" (saved with information that allows it to be time-stretched). When you import the vocal file, is the "Set audio master tempo" option visible? I've highlighted it on the image below.
If there is no acid info present on the audio file, the importing window indicates "no tempo data detected".
When the file is transferred to Studio One, it is possible that BIAB saves the audio with acidized details that allows it to be time-stretched/shrunk. The BIAB option is found under the "Audio" menu at the very top of the BIAB window. To access the setting, click on "Export Song as audio file".
When you get a chance, can you check out these options as these could be causing the issue.
Noel, all six of my audio file import trials have been marked "No tempo data detected" at the dialogue box per your pic. Saw the info about acidized files in the help section but I've "assumed" it does not apply as indicated by the dialogue box. That being said, SOMETHING is going on...
Have sent this issue to support along with example files...
THANKS again!
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
Out of curiosity, was the file you imported 16 bit, 44100 Hz? I'm not sure that this matters these days but as this is BIAB's default format, it might be worth checking that. The small amount of stretching that is showing up might possibly be explained by the difference between 44100 Hz and 48000 Hz files. That's the last of my ideas. Because I had an issue, too, there is definitely something going on. Hopefully Support will have success sorting it out
Great idea. I did have it set up for 24 bit, 44100 Hz but changed it to 16/44100...and got exactly the same results. Interestingly, the imported file is labeled "32 bit", which I'm GUESSING (again) is a 16 bit stereo file.
THANKS again, Noel!!
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
One more detail...my Studio One export dialogue box does not have the "include tempo info" checkbox checked. So I don't believe I'm sending tempo info with the audio file.
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
Ron, you confirmed the BIAB file was time-stretched so I wasn't suggesting that wasn't the case. My only question was all the steps the file had gone through. In most normal audio import situations with BIAB, BIAB will not automatically time-stretch pre-recorded material. Acid based material would be one exception and Noel has covered that. The ACW can create tempo maps and time-stretch audio to a specific tempo. It would be interesting since you know the correct tempo, to import the original audio into BIAB, open the ACW and equalize the tempo to the correct 118 bpm. I don't know if it would have any effect, but I always have BIAB audio driver set to MME.
Another thing, how did you determine in the ACW the tempo to be 120 bpm?
Charlie, my audio driver is set to WAS. Have not tried another setting on this issue yet.
As I recall, when I ran the auto analyze function in ACW, BiaB indicated 120 BPM and forced the song tempo to 120 BPM. But I just tried to repeat those results, and ACW now interprets the song file as 118 BPM. However, the timing is still stretched so the imported song file does not match the BiaB tracks on which the song file was based.
I agree that BiaB should not time stretch pre-recorded material that is not Acid based. But somehow, and this may still be on me...that is what is happening.
THANKS again, Charlie! I sometimes find it hard to remain cool and analytical with these frustrating issues. Very helpful to have you and Noel talking me off the ledge.
Ha!
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
I've just had a spot of lunch and that got me thinking again. There is one other way we can approach this and see if it works. It will sound confusing but it is not all that much effort to do this. If you're game, we can try this using a manual process.
Firstly, a bit of background about BIAB and audio. When BIAB creates and saves an audio file on the Audio track, that audio file will have the same name as the MGU or SGU file and it will reside in exactly the same directory as the MUS/SGU file.
Quote
For example... The MGU file I tried was called... NEVER_AGAIN.MGU
When I imported an audio file onto the audio track and saved the MGU after it was imported, the audio file was called... NEVER_AGAIN.WAV
Both these files were in their own folder called d:\BIAB Songs\Never Again\
With the above in mind...
1) Go to your song's folder and **delete any .wav or .mp3 file that is <songfile name>.wav or <songfile name>.mp3
In my case this file was: NEVER_AGAIN.WAV (I didn't have any mp3s)
**If you want to save the existing files, simply change their name so that the end extension is not .wav or .mp3.
I usually add .old to any file that I want to keep but that I don't want BIAB to see. So in my case, I would hide NEVER_AGAIN.WAV by renaming it to NEVER _AGAIN.WAV.OLD
2) Go to Studio One and save the vocal as 16 bit, 44,100 Hz.(either mp3 or wav will work since BIAB works with both formats).
3) Take the saved vocal file and copy it to the same folder that the song's MGU/SGU file is in. Check the date/time stamp of the file to make sure that it was the one that you just created.
4) Rename the vocal file that has been copied to the song's folder as <songfile name>.WAV or <songfile name>.mp3 if you saved an mp3.
In my case, I would name this vocal file to NEVER_AGAIN.WAV
5) Now start BIAB and open the MGU/SGU file. I would open this using "File | Open" within BIAB rather than double-clicking on the file in the song's folder.
That's it. The audio file will automatically be attached to the MGU/SGU file.
Noel, brilliant idea! But, unfortunately, identical result. Oh, well. Really appreciate the investment of your time, but not sure this journey is as "great" as it is "grating". Ha! I suspect the PG support group will not be working much, if at all, over the weekend, so I'm going to kick back and try to make some music today. Hope you have a great weekend as well! Ron
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
Good morning Ron and great idea Noel. At some point Ron, PG staff will request you make an SGU and Audio file available if they can't immediately diagnose the issue. Is it possible you could make an SGU file/ song available someway we on the forum could look at? We're missing something so far.
Also, I'm curious to your complete steps you do when you import the file in BIAB, open the ACW and sync the audio to the ACW. What point do you realize the audio is time stretched?
Candidly, there are several others having issues with the ACW that have posted videos or detailed all the steps and with these aids, I've been able to accurately understand their issues, duplicate them on my program but also see what to change to correct the issue.
To be honest, the secret weapon we have in your case is the involvement of Noel. He is a much, much better instructor and explainer than I am. I'm thinking if I can see your complete process and if this issue isn't actually a bug with the ACW, I may can explain the fix to Noel well enough he can share it with you and others that may encounter this problem.
Charlie, sorry I confused the discussion with my ACW excursion. My issue is with the File>Import>Import Audio function stretching the audio it imports. It's a very simple process, or always has been before. First, select the file to import. In my case, it is a 16/44 vocal track. Second, select the insertion point. Since my audio file starts with the BiaB 2-bar count in, the insertion point is chorus 1, bar -1, beat 1, tick 0. That's it.
Noel is indeed a weapon, but that's not much of a secret. Ha!
Here's the email I sent support:
I’m running the latest build of BiaB 2024 Audiophile on a Windows 10 PC.
"Problem: I’ve run half a dozen tests, and half the time BiaB is time stretching audio files when importing. Below is my thread on the forum.
After importing, the vocals start late and get progressively later as time goes on. When I export the vocal track back from BiaB into my DAW I can see that the vocals have been stretched. The vocals are in the correct key however.
I have reset to factory settings in BiaB and completely rebuilt the song file from new with no change in results."
Thanks again, Charlie!
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
Thanks Ron. PG Staff will likely and hopefully quickly resolve this issue and I'll be monitoring the thread to see how things turn out for you.
Truthfully, I get a lot of blowback about participating in these type issues and have been asked by prominent DAW experts to no longer interfere with their strategy to convert BIAB into a full-fledged DAW.
So, have fun with BIAB, don't let it frustrate you. Music should be fun.
Thanks Ron. PG Staff will likely and hopefully quickly resolve this issue and I'll be monitoring the thread to see how things turn out for you.
Truthfully, I get a lot of blowback about participating in these type issues and have been asked by prominent DAW experts to no longer interfere with their strategy to convert BIAB into a full-fledged DAW.
So, have fun with BIAB, don't let it frustrate you. Music should be fun.
Charlie,
You do a great job. You impress me no end with your depth of knowledge. Don't let the naysayers stop you. Ultimately, it's up to them if they want to read your posts and learn what you explain to them. If they choose to be unreasonably critical, that's a comment about them, not you.
Ron, Please have a look at your messages. You need to scroll to the top of the page and the Message icon is beside you user name on the upper right. --Noel
..................... Truthfully, I get a lot of blowback about participating in these type issues and have been asked by prominent DAW experts to no longer interfere with their strategy to convert BIAB into a full-fledged DAW. Music should be fun.
Charlie, don't stop giving your expert advise or your ideas about BiaB. I am not keen on BiaB becoming a DAW however if I can exit BiaB anytime I want, like I can now, and others want it to become a DAW then sure go for it.
Yes music should be fun.
My momma didn't raise a fool. And if she did it, was one of my brothers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
<< I import the .WAV vocal track to chorus 1, bar -1, beat 1, but the vocals are behind a beat or so. >> This is your vocal import settings. I downloaded the SGU and the Vocals. Thanks for doing that. I assume the vocals start at bar 9.
I adjusted the import settings to Chorus 1, beat 4, tick 0 and these settings properly placed the vocal track in BIAB. This import setting started the vocals at bar 9 and there was no time stretching during the import. I played the file with vocals at 118 bpm. Give this a try.
DrDan, well, in prior years you would be correct. But since I want to CHANGE my workflow (which is currently the one you suggest) so that I do MORE in BiaB and LESS in my DAW, THEN...I'd like to try it with an existing song. Frankly, the new features in BiaB are exciting enough to make me want to try a different workflow, and it's been a long, LONG time since that's happened...
So I'll gladly engage the joke responses to get there.
My dunce cap is still at the ready, but not because I shouldn't be exploring a new workflow...
Ha!(?)
DC - Hows this working out for you so far? I am watching, however, you are working in areas of BIAB that I never go, so can't exactlly tell. Be sure to let me know at the end just how practical this "reverse workflow" is for you.
Charlie, the vocals do not start at bar 9. The last syllable of the first vocal phrase (the word "eyes") lands on beat 1 of bar 9. I linked a rough mix of the entire song file in the Support email above if you'd like to hear how it's supposed to sound. Understand you're not getting stretching with this audio file (neither is Noel) but I still am. So now there appears to be something about my install (which is new) or configuration (which hasn't changed in many years) or...something else?
THANK YOU for diving into this!!
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One StudioCat DAW dual screen Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
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