Charlie, of course there are limits. User limits: like time limit, patience limit, etc. Yes, it's all about convenience. That's why most people buy bread instead of making it. I doubt most of us like to tinker in deep menus to perform basic tasks which are standardized everywhere else in the past 2+ decades.
"It's perfect to record as many tracks as a user needs in BIAB." - with workflow of 1998 maybe it's "perfect". Not for 2025.
P.S. I am sure PGM has further plans for the Track View. I guess we will soon find out
others with experience in tech will see what i'm driving at. and its got to do with tech business strategy or mba 101 in biz schools.....
I've long since lost count of the number of times that I've warned directors that they need both a business strategy and a product strategy. I've also lost count of the number of times I've had to say "we don't have the foundations to do that, because you thought it wasn't important. Some bosses are remarkably stupid. C'est la vie.
Originally Posted by justanoldmuso
2..if one looks at businesses that are successfull one will see they diversify.
Well, yes and no. Divesification can be a two-edged sword. You can lose sight of your raison d'etre; you can spread yourself too thinly in areas that don't necessarily help. The important thing is to spread your business to minimise the impact of a sigle or small group of threats. Lots of businesss do very well by focussing on niche markets. They don't grow to Amazon or Wallmart sizes, but they do well. The problems then come when a new threat appears and replaces the old (e.g. candles->gas-lamps->incandescent lamps->LEDs).
A good strategy, tricky as it may be, is to be the best at what one does, whilst keeping a close eye on what may change or is likely to change, and what will likely be the significance of each likely change.
I think PGM has a good niche market. I think they do well much of what they do, but you'll know I have strong reservations about some of how thwy do it. They have threats from things like EZKeys, Scaler, iRealPro, regenerative AI, DAW-based beatmakers. Undoubtedly some other things.
One threat IMHO is that I think they presently gat away with being, um, clumsy about how they handle some things. I've always striven to get the customer not to say just "Yes, that's what we wanted", but to say "Wow ... that's more than we thought was feasible". I didn't always succeed, but I darned well tried!
Both a business strategy and a product strategy.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
some excellent points made. (loved your strategy comments gordon.)
how about this concept...critique it.
1..the bb plugin continues getting love and is the 'waiter' serving up pg content for people who have a daw and dont want to learn another. 2..current bb gets users complaints/legacy problems addressed. and some added features for the lovely new bb tracks view. particularly good editing of audio and midi tracks within the view ? and maybe special tracks like... ..a tempo track ..a lyric track ..a chord track ..a special track for creating drum solos and fills etc. 3..for those of us that like rb...a really aggressive development schedule to make it a market slayer. (franklly for me with the 2024 rb improvements i find i dont have to use reaps as much which ive used for years.)
just some ideas. i know ive missed something...lol.
happiness
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 10/19/2412:53 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
serving up pg content for people who have a daw and dont want to learn another
FWIW, I personally think that's very important. DAWs are fairly complex and many people find them hard work to learn. If they also already do most of what one wants in a way and to a standard one wants, why should one change?
Typically are reluctant to change just to get a feature. Unless it's really compelling, they'll tend to "manage without".
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Charlie, of course there are limits. User limits: like time limit, patience limit, etc. Yes, it's all about convenience. That's why most people buy bread instead of making it. I doubt most of us like to tinker in deep menus to perform basic tasks which are standardized everywhere else in the past 2+ decades.
"It's perfect to record as many tracks as a user needs in BIAB." - with workflow of 1998 maybe it's "perfect". Not for 2025.
P.S. I am sure PGM has further plans for the Track View. I guess we will soon find out
Nobody mentioned there aren't any limits to BIAB. I responded to your assertion specific to recording in BIAB.
Convenience? Just like with bread, I suspect most people buy/download music instead of making music. Don't you?
There's no deep menus to record music in BIAB. There's a button. Actually two. And, if you accidentally select the audio record button when you meant to record midi or if you want to record midi and audio at the same time, select the audio button.
What deep menus are you speaking of? Yes, you have to set up the interface and audio settings once in BIAB just the same as any digital recording device, but once your settings are done, the attached screenshot record menu page is the only screen you'll interact with.
I agree PG Music will continue development for the Tracks View and adding new features, I'll embrace them when they arrive.
Charlie, You maintain that pictures you posted (I am not even talking about actual process here)... conforms to 2024 standards of recording digital track audio? If it's all good by you, I am afraid there is nothing constructive to discuss.
I never said that recording is not possible. Functions are there. Method is badly outdated. All I proposed, that PGM organize existing recording functions with workflow / standards in mind, so average or new user will not be discouraged using it. Given new Track View, it's natural to assume that's where it is heading.
Charlie, feels like a rhetorical request. But if you are sincere, I believe most (if not all) digital audio workstations have: input select, input meter and Arm on individual track headers. It doesn't ask silly questions / pop ups (by default) if you want to simply record - a start position is defined by vertical cursor. Obviously most DAWs have significantly more things happening on track level, but these are the most basic "Standards" that we are missing in BIAB... for now.
Ohh, almost forgot. A full length vertical cursor, instead of a short one we have now that follows the track position. I just hope it was oversight and will be fixed in 2025. That is also a "Standard"
Some are. Like simple Arm and record track. The way it's done now, is not for fainted heart users, who don't want/need another program, and want a simple way to record 1-6 tracks on top of BIAB arrangement. Function is there. Implementation is not user friendly.
Misha,
In relation to recording in BIAB, I personally think it is very friendly these days. It is also consistent with all the other menus in the way BIAB uses "Bars | Beats |Ticks". Knowledge of these bars/beats/ticks is only need if a user decides to punch in a new section or overdub an existing section (#4 on the image below).
Recording BIAB is a one-click, two-settings process. After clicking on the recording icon (#1), the settings window opens and then it's necessary to select what section to record (#2) and which track to record 2 (#3).
Charlie, feels like a rhetorical request. But if you are sincere, I believe most (if not all) digital audio workstations have: input select, input meter and Arm on individual track headers. It doesn't ask silly questions / pop ups (by default) if you want to simply record - a start position is defined by vertical cursor. Obviously most DAWs have significantly more things happening on track level, but these are the most basic "Standards" that we are missing in BIAB... for now.
Ohh, almost forgot. A full length vertical cursor, instead of a short one we have now that follows the track position. I just hope it was oversight and will be fixed in 2025. That is also a "Standard"
No, not a rhetorical request, but sincere. However, you answered appropriately so I understand the basis of your proposal. I do agree PG Music will continue development for the Tracks View and adding new features that I'll use when they arrive.
These most basic "Standards" that are missing in BIAB for now may be a stretch goal in 2025 for the following reasons. First, BIAB isn't a DAW but an accompaniment and arrangement program with some important differences that PG Staff will have to address and consider.
Second, All DAWs record linearly exclusively. Currently and historically, recording in BIAB is linear but it's settings and activation are based on the non-linear display of the Chord Sheet. Examine the record pop-up that displays after the record arm button is pressed on the Main Chord Page Tool Bar to see that recording takes account for having multiple Choruses, repeats and codas.
Third, It will be burdensome, cumbersome and an inequality to suddenly require the users that use the program as it has always worked to change their workflow to accommodate a distinct segment of the customer base. Such a change would not be an enhancement to users that don't use a DAW, or never have recorded any way but the way BIAB has always been since audio recording was implemented. To implement recording solely in the Tracks View is a disservice to other segments of the customer base that aren't DAW dependent.
We may get everything you wish for in DAW features, and I'll adapt to them but I believe there are big hurdles for PG staff to cross to make it so.
"Third, It will be burdensome, cumbersome and an inequality to suddenly require the users that use the program as it has always worked to change their workflow to accommodate a distinct segment of the customer base. Such a change would not be an enhancement to users that don't use a DAW, or never have recorded any way but the way BIAB has always been since audio recording was implemented. To implement recording solely in the Tracks View is a disservice to other segments of the customer base that aren't DAW dependent."
That is only your opinion. And perhaps a few others. Only few.
Sorry Charlie, I care about the future of the BIAB. I don't buy some strange philosophy that program should be soaked in formalin for selected few. I am glad features like partial regeneration, more tracks, near instant regenerations, MTP library and others became a reality despite efforts to derail these and other great ideas at conception. I think it's time to hit a break pedal.
Noel, these "punch in" methods to are not the way most people do basic tracking. It's OK to have such menu somewhere, but for standard recording, arming & input metering should take place at the track level. (Full length) Cursor should be the guide for start recording position.
Mal, I am sorry if I derailed your thread in a way. Topic seemed like an open question. I agree to some extent to what you are saying. But RT's are designed / recoded in such way, so they can be easily manipulated and surely because of that there are some limitations. However by using Partial Regeneration you can get pretty interesting and fulfilling results. A much better fit than initial random generation. Personally, I enjoy the diversity of genres and instrumentals PGM offers yearly.
I am certain there are tracks that you like in BIAB. Why not request similar, or offer concrete suggestion? For example, I would like very much to get more acoustic and electric Reggae, Ska and Surf rock RTs, which are represented very narrowly and are hard (except for drums) to fake with Midi. These have to be played. I am not sure if it happened specifically upon my requests or not, but a few tracks from the genres above were added past few years.
Well, there is always this discussion between diversify or focus on core business. The later is mostly what was the drive behind starting that particular business.
But there is another consideration I want to bring attention to: Strenghten your strengh! (that could also translate into keep your unique selling point unique). There is so much that sets Band in a Box apart, makeing it unique (not just unique to be unique, but delivering what no competitor can do). Biab as it is plays in a league of its own.
“Musicians”: UltraPak 2025 DAW: Studio One Pro + "Instruments": VSTs and REs Notation: Notion 6 Interface: NI Komplete Audio 6 Mic: RØDE NT1-A Controller: Panorama P6/KAWAI VPC1/Atom OS: Win 10 64 Pro
aren't we back to a debate we've had many times? if we define BIAB as an amazing auto accompaniment program we can all agree. but is it a DAW? what can't be questioned is that adding DAW like features have made it much more complicated and there are lots of posts about confusing GUIs and 'hidden' menus. and posts that say its very complication is putting off new users.
like lots of forumites i work in BIAB then as quickly as possible get into RB (or the DAW of their choice) which i find much easier to use for DAW like features.
i can almost guarantee that new features won't affect my work flow as BIAB already does what i need, but i will upgrade for new RTs and styles.
I like Bob’s point----don’t need, now, nor will use, new features----just new styles and real tracks. No deep diving, here. Only need good-sounding, realistic, reliable backing tracks. 2024 is working great at the moment.
Bob, Here is the thing. I didn't ask for a Track View. It was an interesting and bold decision by PGM. At first, I saw it as burden, similar to a complexity you are describing. But I gave it some time and it works wonders when it comes to partial regeneration and other types of visualization and editing.
My take is this. If something gets rolled out, it should get finished. At least bare minimum standards, which in this particular case I believe would be input selection, input metering and Arming track on the track headers and a full length vertical cursor instead of a short one they got now.
Yes, we had several big conversations this year on what people wanted for 2025. General consensus concerning software (not the content) was that people want to see know issues fixed + existing features finished and improved, including improving workflow. Getting basic standard functions (that are present in other form already in BIAB) at the track level is "improving existing features" in my view.
I like Bob’s point----don’t need, now, nor will use, new features----just new styles and real tracks. No deep diving, here. Only need good-sounding, realistic, reliable backing tracks. 2024 is working great at the moment.
This ^^^. With perhaps additional and varied RT endings.
BIAB/RealBand 2025 Audiophile | GPO 5 | Windows 11 | Martin TR4501
What is needed, is to allow the user to hide parts of the interface they do not use. It's best to make everything into a tool bar, where they can use the ones they want, and place them where they want! that includes floating the toolbar.
Back to add, that BiaB should reopen to that screen I want. I have a 4 monitor setup and want Biab to always open on screen #3, It doe not! it just defaults to screen 1 (Windows default).
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
Playable RealTracks Set 4
RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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