PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic Mixing Lead Vocal Track Question

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John, Did you ever hear the interview Neil Tenant did for the BBC, when he described what it was like recording with Dusty Springfield?

He got the Pet Shop Boys track all set up, gave her the lyrics, adjusted all the monitors etc. Dusty sang the first word of the first line and promptly moved back from the mic. Devestated, Neil went to find out what was wrong, bad key? bad balance in the phones, hopeless song?...

Dusty said everything was fine, but that was just how she recorded - one word at a time!

Now if its good enough for Dusty....

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.....that was just how she recorded - one word at a time!

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Like I said it's my opinion & actually it's not really an opinion. Yes many "pros" do this I guess but they are in a different boat sometimes. Differing circumstances may dictate that they do this. To me ,at the level of experience of most of us here I surmise, I wouldn't be proud of something I had to piece meal together because i couldn't do it otherwise.What's the point in that?

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I think 'pro' and 'talent' shouldn't be defined as the same thing these days, that's for sure. And I think it's a bit silly to call out vocal comping as something to be ashamed of, considering we're using biab software that that fits the same mold- a prefabricated performance we had nothing to do with in the first place. A bit hypocritical there. At the very least we're SINGING our vocals. It's all just tools to help modestly talented people have fun and get good results, and it gives seriously talented people another tool to get them where they're going. Why use it? Because we can! I'd bet a ton of money that someone like Sinatra, who cut vocals in one take, would love to have the ability to cut a couple of different tracks if he were still around. In fact he probably did many a recording where he could later on in his career and he probably did it. A lot of the one takers did it out of sheer necessity, not by choice, back in the day. And you need to be talented to do that. Not taking that away from anyone and generally I agree- someone who can cut a vocal in one take is a hell of a lot more controlled and skilled than someone who can't. Where I see things more of a lie is using auto tune. That's really lying about a skill you should have as a prerequisite to being not only a vocalist, but a professional vocalist. But the industry went and made itself perfect notes with all the technology available, and not just with vocals either and not just notes, but timing too. The performance has taken a hit because of it all. Now when you hear a variable pitchy vocal it's called into question, even if it's an awesome performance. But if you want to put people at 'levels' it's at this level where I most expect this stuff and comping techniques to be used. At the pro level, I expect the vocalists to be able to sing without all the help. But we all know, it just ain't so. Oh how we know that.

Dan

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It is quite ironic that people that are perfectly happy to use pre-recorded midi files and audio files, look down their noses on vocals being comp'ed!!

At least I'm playing my guitars, keyboard parts, bass parts, and even programming drums sometimes (when Jamstix isn't working out). I'm not ashamed one bit to comp a vocal track. I'm doing this for fun for goodness sakes. Why not use the capability?

Do we look down our noses for folks doing editing on other tracks; guitar parts, etc.? If so, why even bother multi-tracking? Get the whole band in the room with an x-y pair and give it a go!

I don't get it.

-Scott

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Before this turns ugly let me make this perfectly clear:
I AM NOT LOOKING DOWN MY NOSE AT ANYONE.
It's just my opinion that time, in a lot of cases, would be better spent on your vocal/instrument chops verses your compilation skills.

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Like I said it's my opinion & actually it's not really an opinion.

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Dan I've done a fair amount of recording and I won't do punch ins. I'll re-due the whole track but of course I'm not getting paid so usually have the option. For me I just don't get that euphoria I get from nailing a track all the way through. There's disappointment for me if I miss it.

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John,

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Dan I've done a fair amount of recording and I won't do punch ins. I'll re-due the whole track but of course I'm not getting paid so usually have the option. For me I just don't get that euphoria I get from nailing a track all the way through. There's disappointment for me if I miss it.

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I've always felt the same way. The old stuff I've recorded doesn’t have any "punch ins", it was do it right or do it over. Especially since it was recorded on an old Tascam 4 track and you had to "bounce" tracks to make enough room.

But if I ever get back into recording, I'm sure I'll be more open to doing this because at my age, with the fingers slowing down, it would be more difficult to pull off the "perfect" take.

A lot of the songs I'd like to record are extremely difficult arrangements of my own that I used to use in the flatpicking contests. Each person’s performance is supposed to be their own arrangement, although a lot of the guys "cheat" and use other peoples solos. They get disqualified if the judges notice.

We're talking about an intro, 4 times all the way through the song of nothing but solos of very technical and difficult instrumentals, and then a tag, while playing on stage in front of several hundred to a few thousand people and having 3 judges critiquing every note. The only way I could pull that off was to practice 3-4 hours a day, every day. I just don't have that drive anymore.

The point is, try recording that stuff in one take!

Since all of the music we hear today has “punch ins”, overdubs, pitch correction, etc., I don’t think I’d feel guilty about “fixing” something without totally redoing it. When playing live, you have to live with the occasional miscue. When recording, I think it’s okay to avail yourself of the same “tools” the pros use.

I think of a recording kind of like a “painting”. If an artist makes a bad brush stroke, he doesn’t chuck the whole thing and start over. He fixes it.

When I start recording again I’ll play my best and “fix” the rest. LOL. It will definitely take some pressure off each take. JMHO.

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If you watched the CMA last night did you catch George Strait's performance? he choked up on a phrase and it looked like he hacked up a lunger & spit it on the stage. Happened very quick. Bet he wishes he could redue that one.

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Here in WV, we call that "hockin' a lugie". Oddly enough, I've never watched a CMA program in my life, even tho I'm a fan of a lot of the old and some of the new country music. No particular reason, other than I never notice it's on.

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I bet you're not piece mealing a measure at a time either.

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I definitely might do one solo, (32 measures), at a time. Playing 128 measures, plus an intro and ending, of that stuff is way out of my reach at this point in my life. The wrist of my right hand couldn't handle it. That wouldn't have been acceptable to me before, but it would now.

Now if I was playing a "standard" song, and not some ridiculously difficult 128 bar solo, then a "one take" track isn't out of the question.

The tools available today could be "abused" by someone without any real talent, but they can also be "used" by real musicians.

We don't need to make recording a song any harder than it already is, especially if you're playing all the instruments and singing all the vocals and writing the songs, which is what I usually do. But I can't play drums, although I might take a crack at one of those "cajon's" Scott talked about. Look's like fun.

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And you don't have to be playing and singing all of the parts to justify using the tools now available. It's just a recording, .... or a "painting", if you will. The tools were made to be used, and or abused. Let's lighten up and contribute whatever each of us have to contribute. Then people can listen to it, or as Charlie mentioned,

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99% of what we record (may be more than that) is going to be listened to very, very, very infrequently.

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Dan I've done a fair amount of recording and I won't do punch ins. I'll re-due the whole track but of course I'm not getting paid so usually have the option.

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The tools available today could be "abused" by someone without any real talent, but they can also be "used" by real musicians.

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