|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
OK, new thread. As you recall in our last episode, the following exchange was made: Quote:
Quote:
... and the water goes a different direction when you flush the toilet, ...
Actually, the direction that water spins when going down a drain is up to chance. It can take either clockwise or counterclockwise direction, independent of whether or not you happen to be in the Northern or Southern Hemisphere.
http://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/mysteries/coriolis.html
--Mac
I think the key point in the article was this:
Quote:
It all depends upon how the water was introduced and the geometric structure of the drain.
All that means is that specific physical considerations can override the coreolis effect, which is weak. But I contend that in the absence of assignable cause, the rule is generally true as stated.
So here's a test: I'm asking everybody to notice which way the water flows next time you flush the toilet. Then report back to this thread. Due to the existence of design elements that can influence the direction, we won't have 100% consistency... but I'm looking for a trend. True randomness should produce a 50-50 result.
but results skewed in one direction or the other, even if not 100%, would indicate there's something at work overriding randomness..
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,296
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,296 |
http://www.ems.psu.edu/~fraser/Bad/BadCoriolis.htmlYou're likely going to need a few thousand tests to get any significant statistical results. In any event, even the slightest non-symmetrical shape or the slightest unobservable convection currents in the water will determine how the water moves - think of the "butterfly effect". I guess what I'm saying is (I'm an applied scientist - structural engineer), and while I firmly believe the theory is correct, a hands on test that is not strictly controlled in a lab but done in one's bathroom or kitchen sink DOES NOT adhere to good scientific protocol for testing, and may be even more meaningless than many of the tests done by the pharmaceutical industry these days to prove their drugs are effective and safe. OK, I've opened up another even larger can of worms, but can anyone NOT think of a recent class action lawsuit against a pharmaceutical company? The first one I recall was against thalidomide (mid sixties). Glenn
Last edited by Glenn Kolot; 10/07/11 10:31 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
Awww, you're no fun Glenn
I think the complexity of pharmaceutical studies where innumerable physiological variants and genetic predispositons come into play with the chemicals is not a good comparison to the toilet flush (where the variables are toilet shape/flow, gravity, water)
I recall a statistical experiment from school in which 10 dimes were tossed 100 times, and the results (how many heads, how many tails) were charted on a graph. Well before the 100 tosses were complete, the bell shaped curve began to form. Subsequent tosses only made the same results into a larger bell.
Sinks are clearly influenced by all sorts of shapes and configurations... but toilets are pretty generic. My toilet drains in a counter clockwise direction when flushed. Every time. Brand is Kohler. (different brands may have different shapes which could influence the flow)
humor me. Which direction does your toilet drain, and what brand is it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,345
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,345 |
I've done the test, several times. The direction of flow is DOWN.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,705
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,705 |
Pat you have way toooooo much time on their hands.  Later,
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,803
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,803 |
I will bite, Patt, I have always thought that they went clockwise here, but this morning i noticed it to be counter-clockwise, for both of our bathrooms.
That was with nothing in them, i will report back the result with, well let's say obstructions!
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Any reports here would not be enough of a sample to be statistaclly significant.
And this has actually been done before, including thousands if not hundreds of thousands of reports.
That particular survey only proved what I originally stated.
The water can rotate in either direction and the statistical results indicate the situation to be more one of random chance than any other phenomenon.
As for mentioning the strength of a particular force that might or might not be affecting the water circulation direction, well, water is a rather dense chunk of matter and it would take quite a lot of energy to actually change its direction...
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,636
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,636 |
But if the tube the water comes out of is pitched, the weight will be heavier on one side and influence the direction of flow. Being in construction, if the water went clockwise I would want to know if the toilet was out of level with the right side lower than the left.. and vice versa. As Pat mentioned, I also think brand (and model) would be a factor. American Standard here (2) both clockwise when viewed from above. I'll have to get out the level later. 
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,803
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,803 |
After a weekend of family reunion type meals there can be some rather powerful forces involved there Macster!
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
Quote:
But if the tube the water comes out of is pitched, the weight will be heavier on one side and influence the direction of flow.
Being in construction, if the water went clockwise I would want to know if the toilet was out of level with the right side lower than the left.. and vice versa.
As Pat mentioned, I also think brand (and model) would be a factor. American Standard here (2) both clockwise when viewed from above. I'll have to get out the level later.
I think you may have hit the nail on the head. The symmetry of toilets is such that I think there would be very little vaning effect from the surface, and even minimal from the water flowing into the bowl.
However, two things I'd expect to make a notable difference are :
1) the level of the toilet (If it aint level, then the water exits at some angle)
Thanks Bob, for pointing that out. That's an easy one to check.
2) and the random direction the plumber chose to orient the trap. Water molecules are cohesive, so if the water takes a turn anywhere in the process of exiting the premises, the molecular cohesion could exert an influence on everything coming behind it.
Now I'm tempted to tear out the ceiling under the bathrooms to see if the orientation of the trap coincides with the rotation of the water in that toilet.
(apparently I *DO* have too much time on my hands... but hey, its Saturday)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
Quote:
I've done the test, several times. The direction of flow is DOWN.
heh heh... OK, you win the award for most unexpected but most appropriate reply.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,302
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,302 |
Is this from that famous book "I Have WAY Too Much Time On My Hands"?
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
Quote:
Any reports here would not be enough of a sample to be statistaclly significant.
And this has actually been done before, including thousands if not hundreds of thousands of reports.
That particular survey only proved what I originally stated.
The water can rotate in either direction and the statistical results indicate the situation to be more one of random chance than any other phenomenon.
As for mentioning the strength of a particular force that might or might not be affecting the water circulation direction, well, water is a rather dense chunk of matter and it would take quite a lot of energy to actually change its direction...
--Mac
Mac,
you're preaching to the choir. I already knew that all toilets in a hemisphere don't really flush the same direction. I expect nearly everybody who's spent much time online knows, as that information gets circulated by email quite often. I reference it in a forum of friends not for the purpose of making an empirically correct statement, but because internet truisms are amusing (especially when I figure everybody else already gets the joke)
For future reference, when what I'm saying comes across as the words of a pompous know-it-all who's just wrong, you can bet its spoken with tongue planted firmly in cheek. It's my nature to kick goofy ideas around for fun.
I'm just curious to hear how the evidence manifests in a random cross section of toilets around the world. I know it doesn't meet the requirements of a statistically valid test. I just want to see how the results shake down.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,636
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,636 |
I don't know about your toilet, but here the water is already started to cascade down the side of the toilet in the direction it will spin before it fills enough to let go, so I doubt the exit path comes in to play.. I'm sticking with manufacturer/model and whether the bowl/tank are level as my hunches.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 297
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 297 |
I have a policy of never, ever looking.
- Bud
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 349
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 349 |
Probably depends on whether your toilet is right handed or left handed!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,302
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,302 |
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
Quote:
I have a policy of never, ever looking.
I'll bet whoever cleans the floor around your toilet really hates that job
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
OK, my wife thinks I'm nuts as I go to each bathroom and waste water watching what happens with each flush.
Best ones for comparison are two toilets on opposite sides of a partition. One flushes in a clockwise direction, the other in a counter clockwise direction.
Neither toilet is level... but they are both slanted in the same direction, which doesn't account for the water exiting in opposite directions.
The ceiling under the bathrooms is the suspended type with removable panels. I opened 'er up to check out the pipes.
A main line comes between them, and an angled leg shoots off to each toilet (opposite directions from the trunk)
The water exits both toilets in the direction that is heading toward the angled drain pipe's opening.
However
the water that gets squirted into the bowl *IS* coming in at an angle, and in both cases the water swirls in that direction.
So in my mind the conclusion is crystal clear.
Spooks.
What else could it be?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,025
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,025 |
Counter-clockwise here when "free" enough to drain properly. That plunger has been a lifesaver! Trax 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Video: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Windows Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,636
Posts735,311
Members38,524
| |
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean