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I've been working with BIAB since Feb-2010. I feel relatively comfortable with it although I'm learning something new almost every day.
I've read so many posts here of people using RealBand or some other DAW. I'm somewhat convinced I need to start learning how to use RealBand now. But, I see a lot of people using a DAW other than RealBand and yet, since it's integration is so tight with BIAB, the interface is the same, support from same company, and all the other features ... then is there a good reason that I should use some other DAW?
I'm asking because it takes me quite awhile to learn a new program (and retain it) and before I start to learn RealBand I'd just like to hear what others have and why they use it over RB.
Thank you all in advance!
Ike
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Hi Russell, I use both Realband and Sonar Home Studio for assembling a final track. As you point out, because Realband interfaces with BIAB like a hand in a glove, there are a large number of advantages in using RB. I use the programs for writing songs as follows... 1. Use BIAB to work out a chord progression and to find a style. 2. Load the song into RB to play around with Realtracks. This includes finding suitable RTs that were not included in the BIAB style as well as threading a soloist through musical breaks. 3. Export all the tracks as WAV files and load into Sonar for mixing. While mixing can be done in RB, I am more familiar with Sonar and I like using envelopes for volume, panning and adding reverb. What I suggest, is that you have a look at the following streaming tutorial on RB. http://64.40.109.185/pgmusic/wmv/RealBand.wmvNOTE: If you cannot get the video happening, go to the below URL and, about half-way down the webpage on the left is a link to a codec that needs to be installed. http://www.pgmusic.com/bbdemovideos.htmRegards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Hi Noel,
Thanks for your reply. I have some questions.
1. Why do you use BIAB at all for step #1 where you're working with chords and styles? Wouldn't you just stay in RealBand?
2. I wasn't aware that there were RealTracks that are not included in BIAB (re: your step #2).
3. What is meant by, "... threading a soloist through musical breaks." ? Not sure I understand your terminology.
4. What do you mean when you say you, "... like using envelopes for volume ..."? What are envelopes?
Thank you Noel
Ike
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Russell,
Many real tracks can be substituted for the ones that BB has in a specific style. In RB when you click on generate real track the whole list comes up so you can experiment with different ones that match your tempo range if you want. Be sure to use swing with swing and even with even etc. I use the programs in a very similiar way to Noel. The "threading the soloist" imo means finding nice little fills that fit your song. I'm sure Noel will answer your other questions.
Realband is a very good program that is still relatively new so I expect it will continue to expand with more features as all other daws have over the years. I would advise you to start with it and grow with it. I don't feel like I've scratched the surface with it yet but I sure have fun.
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Hi Russell, Quote:
1. Why do you use BIAB at all for step #1 where you're working with chords and styles? Wouldn't you just stay in RealBand?
I could stay in Realband. In my opinion, though, it feels more comfortable for me to get my first "draft" of a song together in BIAB. When I have a melody written, I like being able to preview styles in BIAB and determine which one I like best. I do not need to leave the style picker to do this. Also, when I'm trying to work out the best possible chord sequence, BIAB seems faster at regenerating the tracks when I make changes (regeneration is also automatic on every change).
Quote:
2. I wasn't aware that there were RealTracks that are not included in BIAB (re: your step #2).
BIAB and RB have the same number of RTs available to them. What I meant to say was that BIAB has 6 slots in which to place instruments. In RB, I have many many tracks on which to place instruments and this will allow me to use additional instruments (MIDI and RT) that are not included in a particular BIAB style. In this regard, RB is very powerful.
Quote:
3. What is meant by, "... threading a soloist through musical breaks." ?
Josie has explained it well. In most songs I write, there are places where the melody rests. This might be parts of bars, whole bars, or complete sections. In these places, I like to place a little instrumental solo. RB is brilliant at handling this.
Quote:
What do you mean when you say you, "... like using envelopes for volume ..."? What are envelopes?
Envelopes are a way of electronically controlling faders/sliders in a mix. These envelopes can be set to gradually (or suddenly) increase or decrease (say) volume, reverb, panning, etc. I find it makes it much easier for me to mix the final output with these.
All the best 
Noel
Last edited by Noel96; 05/22/10 09:29 PM.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Good brother Noel descrives virtually the same base methodology that I like to use as well.
Great minds thinkin' alike and all that...
However, there is no right or wrong way to work up a recording as far as choice of software issues go. If you are more comfortable doing the whole thing in RealBand, that might be the way to go for you.
--Mac
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I think another reason you see people using a DAW other than RB with BB is the work flow they have gotten used to doing. Most of the people here are old school BB users. RB is really new compared to the roots that BB has. Most people "had" to use a different DAW in the past.
Of course, many prefer to keep using another DAW. Different strokes for different folks. My needs are modest, but I am accustomed to using Cubase. Now that I have RB I am moving in that direction. But for someone who does heavy duty work, day in and day out, RB might be lacking, or the investment in time at this point is something they are not ready to do. If RB is lacking, I don't know, I am not a power user in any way. So I have not run into any limitation.
For a new user, I would suggest sticking with RB as your DAW to work with BB, or completely without BB. If for some reason RB runs out of legs for you, at that point you are probably an advanced user and learning something else would probably be a snap, if you have the time.
Donnie
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I also agree with the above. I started out in Cakewalk products, and then for stability reasons found another DAW that i like very much. I still use it a lot. But i use RB a lot now also. What you need to ask your self is what do i want to do. If RB does all you want, use it.
It boils down to need. Noel uses envelopes a lot and RB and PTPA are a bit limited there so far. If you are going to start a song in BiaB and then add to it with audio tracks, and RTs then RB will do a very neat job of that. I use a lot of timing sensitive VSTis and RB will not handle them. So i move over to my other DAW. But if i am not going to use those plugins i stay put, cause RB does a nice job of recording audio and the RT Rd issues are great.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Quote:
What you need to ask your self is what do i want to do. If RB does all you want, use it.
Thank you for your response.
That's primarily why I'm asking now, ahead of time. I'm new to recording, new to BIAB, new to everything except playing my instruments. I'm NOT new to computing as this was my career for several decades before retiring. So, while I'm comfortable around technology, I'm not yet comfortable with what I've bought in BIAB yet -- although I'm getting there a little bit more every day.
While I'm okay with the computing, I don't care to spend so much time learning something to find out whether I need it or not -- or whether I might better have used something else. I just guessed that it's best to ask the experienced one's here what they use. Right now, as a newbie (and I know that most of you here are long gone from those memories), I don't know what I want or what I want it for. Really, as a comeback player, I'm happy just playing my instruments but I would like to get to know how to record, etc.
I'm not a person who will devote too much time trying to figure out how something works. That's just me though. I can say that yes, most of my software selections have gone that way. In other words, I didn't buy them without first knowing what I needed to accomplish. Trouble with BIAB and RB IMHO is that newbies don't necessarily know why they need it or what features they'll use for what -- I mean it's all pretty much gobbly-gook to me right now although I'm much better off than I was in Feb of this year with I first started. I must admit though, patience is NOT one of my virtues when it comes to computer software however.
I think a lot of learning BIAB (from a non-professional's point of view) is difficult for me because one: I learn things better when I see a diagram showing me the bigger picture about how all the pieces work with one another (I haven't yet come across anything like this for the PG software) and secondly, I find it difficult to blend the artistic side of my brain with the calculating side and BIAB and RB almost 'require' a person who isn't lop-sided as I am (one side stronger than the other). So, being that the artistic side works easier for me, it's much harder for me to understand how something like the computer is going to make me better as a musician. I'm totally for BIAB and the other programs, it's just been hard for me thus far and I'm kinda running out of patience -- and again, that's just me. One other thing that's been difficult for me is the terminology -- I mean I read the book twice before I could start the first song! I'm still returning and reading the thing! I wish there would have been something (that I was made aware of early on), that I might have seen some diagrams of how the software works together, how one might typically set up their hardware, terms that I'd need to understand. There just isn't any of that anywhere (not that I found) -- funny that there's tons of stuff all over the internet about this software but nothing that kinda pulls it all together (for the guy just starting out).
Thanks again!
Last edited by ikeinblackriver; 05/23/10 03:59 PM.
Ike
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Russell look at it this way. Think of the process you will involve when you record. Are you a midi instrument guy, or do you just build the song in BiaB and then add vocals and maybe a guitar track or two? This is the best way to define your work flow, then use software that compliments this path. For instance almost all of my work is either downloaded midi files or original tunes layed out in BiaB that end up as midi files. I enter these in RB and then add a guitar track or two and a vocal track or three. So the process is simple really, and RB will handle it. With original tunes i sometimes go to a different DAW due to the fact it handles VSTis a bit better, but sometimes now i stay in RB. Simple is better to me. If you use simple biab tracks and want to add to them RB is all you will need for now. It is a very capable simple DAW. The real tracks features are a huge advantage for those who might play only one or two instruments. The difference in RB and BiaB is work flow. In BiaB you basically type the chords chose a style and listen the the track and adjust. There is only one real audio track to add to it. In RB you can do the same, but it is a little more complex than BiaB in the process. But to add tracks is a breeze. Highlight a track, chose the type it will be, and hit record. Next you need to follow the signal path to process. Go check out Ray's Tutorials to see what he has done it might help a ton. http://rsthigpen.com/free/
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Quote:
I'm not a person who will devote too much time trying to figure out how something works. That's just me though. I can say that yes, most of my software selections have gone that way. In other words, I didn't buy them without first knowing what I needed to accomplish. Trouble with BIAB and RB IMHO is that newbies don't necessarily know why they need it or what features they'll use for what -- I mean it's all pretty much gobbly-gook to me right now although I'm much better off than I was in Feb of this year with I first started. I must admit though, patience is NOT one of my virtues when it comes to computer software however.
Russell, what you're describing is pretty much all of us here, certainly me. I'm leaving for work in a few minutes so don't have time for a detailed post right now and I've answered several of your posts in other threads. As a noob, learn both Biab and RB at the same time. Everything described so far as to how to use Biab also applies to RB. RB does everything Biab does with only a few very specific exceptions that you may not even need. But as I said in the other thread it adds a many more capabilities. This is why when I'm actually working on something I use RB only, not Biab. If I'm just playing around, maybe setting up a gig that I might use Biab then of course I use Biab but for serious recording using all the elements of Biab tracks, midi tracks, audio tracks, mixing and mastering, RB is it.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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ike,
i guess it sounds like youve been in the computer industry
like myself ??.
imho, learning to use music software is no different
than learning a computer compiler like C++ or vb.
viz..you just gotta get stuck in.
there are no short cuts. and unfortunately this aspect
often taxes peoples patience.
it is a truism whichever music software one uses
there is a learning curve. like a compiler.
a coupla years back i met a member of a group
that has sold milllions of records. he informed me
years back on the first gold hit,,,they basically
just went into the studio n just played their instruments.
everything was set up for em.
today however things are different.
us songwriters have to also be part tecchie , part trouble shooter,
part production engr , part mixer etc etc.
ie we have to wear many hats.
and the nub of it is..if one isnt willing to do that..
its gonna sometimes be frustrating.
the only alternative is to hire a big studio with session musicians.
but this costs money many folks dont have.
ive used such in the past, n sometimes even then a song might
not turn out how one wishes cos one often ends up clock watching
due to ones budget.
there really is no perfect solution mate.
basically songs are loads of work whichever way one goes.
products like BIAB and RB are tools and can help immensely..
but one must have the drive and patience also, as there is only
so much they can do.
stick with it mate n youll get there.
retired puter engr....powertracks on amd......NICE !
"what is the black art of audio engineering ?"
my silly songs...motagator.com/bmanning
see my tips in the tips section.
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Well said Manning. This is the lesson we all learn or we give up on it. If a person is new at this and they're here because they just bought PG products, then learn those products only for now. Once they've become proficient with Biab and RB and can make educated observations about certain things that may be missing in RB for example, then look into branching out to something else but until then, stay at home and learn these programs inside and out first. In the process of doing that, they will start picking up the basics of mixing and mastering too. As you certainly know, mixing and mastering is a full university course of study all by itself. You're not going to be a pro mixing engineer overnight but these programs provide the means to produce pretty good sounding results with minimal effort.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Hi Russell There are very good perspectives here. Mentioned before me is "knowing what you want." That's the key I think, and maybe you are running out of patience with yourself . . . seemingly unable to make a decision. No offense intended . . . and we all know that the written word can be misinterpreted if there is a way.  I new what I wanted when I found this software back in the early 90s. In the 70s I did some recording of my songs and hired a core of 5 session guys who were friends. I loved the way their head arrangements fit together and augmented what I wrote. I even bought a reel to reel 4-track and subsequently an 8-track cassette recorder but did not have the musical expertise to play more than a couple of instruments - but I longed for "band" sound of that earlier recording session. Then my part-time accountant from Peru (seriously) told me about BIAB. I was overjoyed 'cause I got that "band" feel in back of my songs again BUT BIAB only had one recording track and was still limited in what it offered - we're talking 95-96. I got PTracks, imported BIAB files after converting them to midi files and could mount my own productions. At the time there were bigger names in DAW Software - I bought Cakewalk for multi bucks compared to PG stuff and found it less intuitive than PTracks. PTracks is still a simple very effective DAW and it has morphed into RealBand which has this marvellous interface with BIAB . . . so much less work to export from BIAB to RB - and being able to generate midi and RTs right from within RB is fantastic. If you use RB you don't need to render RTs to Wav and then drag them to you fav DAW - they are already in a very simple, effective DAW. Some of the DAW users here have grown through various versions of better known software - Sonar for one, ProTools for some. If the CODECS are good on your machine then pretty well any software will get you where you want to go. Personally I like my software simple for what I do - make backing tracks for my own songs and try to mix good sounding demos. In the beginning of RealBand I hated it because I saw it replacing PowerTracks and I didn't want to learn another DAW software - but once PG's RealTracks came along to BIAB it sealed the deal, and when I discovered I could still haul my old PT SEQ files into RB and generate RTs for stuff I had midi-ed ten years ago, I was ecstatic. OK admittedly I'm a happy camper with the software operating in tandem. So that's my take. Keep it simple for now and if you need a more expensive DAW later then get it. For now learn the basics of BIAB-RB - just commit and jump. . . there is no wrong choice I don't think. Cheers Russell - Ian
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Mixcraft is okay, but still kinda young. It is more of a loop and sample based type of a program that adds sequencing to the mix. It is not really cool just promote other software here, after all this is not a mixcraft forum, and endorsing other software on PG's own site, hhhmmm. Most of us use more than one DAW, and we mention them from time to time in conjuction with PG programs, but this forum is really for the promotion and support of PG products.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Russel,
What SPECIFICALLY do you want to do musically?
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$84 question! What John is asking is key. You need to define what you want to do in order to decide what program best meets your needs.
The biggest thing is that you already own BiaB and RB, so why not stay there unless it just will not get the job done. One of the biggest mestakes i made early on was to jump around and try everything. Just a curiousity thing in part, but i had a very weak sytem, and most host ran poorly on it.
It was Mr. Mac who said on another forum to just dig in and learn one and you will find they all do the job in one way or the other.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Quote:
I've read so many posts here of people using RealBand or some other DAW. I'm somewhat convinced I need to start learning how to use RealBand now. But, I see a lot of people using a DAW other than RealBand and yet, since it's integration is so tight with BIAB, the interface is the same, support from same company, and all the other features ... then is there a good reason that I should use some other DAW? Thank you all in advance!
Well here's an analogy. I'm known for my stupid analogies but here goes.
Russel,
You just got your drivers license and the State gave you a brand new Ferrari to go back and forth to work and the grocery store and you're wondering if you should buy a Lamborghini instead.
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Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
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