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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 225
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Posts: 225 |
Some Real Track sets that have long been suggested. Are they here yet? Or only hundreds more very similar RTs?
Would be great to have Real Strings--a string orchestra playing long sustained chords that could be used with any style?
Similarly real vocals. Background vocals of course, sustained aahs and oohs--men's voices, women's voices, both together?
Rather than many more steel string guitar tracks, why not some with nylon strings--such as Bossa Nova (style like Joao Gilberto, perhaps?), flamenco, Gypsy Kings, other latin styles that use acoustic nylon guitars?
A small amount of new real track sets that are really different, than what has yet been provided, like those mentioned above, would IMO be more worthwhile to get, than hundreds more of the same.
Who else would like to see RT sets like those I mentioned above?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 193
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What your'are asking for would go beyond the Bandinabox scope. You ask for a Orchestra in the box. That would mean high costs for recording and you cannot put together violins with viola cellos and basses. Then somebody would call for brass and woods. That would be great, but I prefer investing in my VSL Vienna Instruments just for a good orchestra, and Bandinabox just for a perfect Band.
So the only thing I agree with you is for nylon guitar.
Sergino
Bandinabox 2024 standard (2020 Audiophile)
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Windows 11(SSD) - AMD Radeon R9 5950X - 32GB RAM
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
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I bet if you hire the 50 string players for a few days this might happen quicker. Think for a moment what you are proposing. It's one thing for a session musician with lots of experience to sit alone in front of a mic and play a guitar. It's another thing for the Vancouver philharmonic to set up in a studio and do the same. And the choir? That's a tough one too.
Last I looked though, this is not the wishlist forum.
Maybe somewhere you can find loops of strings and use those.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2002
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I go along with the idea that with vst support PG has already solved the problem. I have Garratans personal orchestra and with use of the controls can come up with great sounding strings. If I wanted to speed more I could get the Vienna Orchs. Same with the horns. You can get great sounds from Garratans Jazz Band set or spend chunks of $ and get perfect horns with total control from the same folks that do the Vienna Orchestra.
I haven't personally quite figured out to get the vst stuff working yet but once I do I am really looking toward using my Korg M1, Yamaha FX7, NI's B3 the Superior Drummer Drum sets ect in BIAB. They sound super in ProTools and Sonar so they should sound the same with BIAB but with all of the super features of BIAB
Dell 610 dual Monitor, win 7-10, Sonar Plat, ProTools 10 & 11, Reaper 4, BIAB/real Band 2022, Easy Drummer, Superior Drummer, Kontact Essentials, Personnel Orchestra, Korg Legacy Analog & Digital
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 225
Apprentice
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OP
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Joined: May 2004
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Quote:
What your'are asking for would go beyond the Bandinabox scope. You ask for a Orchestra in the box. That would mean high costs for recording and you cannot put together violins with viola cellos and basses. Then somebody would call for brass and woods. That would be great, but I prefer investing in my VSL Vienna Instruments just for a good orchestra, and Bandinabox just for a perfect Band.
So the only thing I agree with you is for nylon guitar.
No, I am not requesting a sampled orchestra. Yes, there are many of those available.
But the Real Tracks concept is different from a MIDI synth. It isn't just samples, but the phrasing, etc. (And no matter how good the samples, it is difficult to emulate strings well with MIDI.
It would not have to be a whole symphony orchestra to have some backing tracks for songs, etc, with strings. Just a small string section. And each instrument would not have to be recorded separately. Again, in no way am I talking about a sampled orchestra.
Someone also responded about the vocal request (made by many, many times in these forums), that it would be expensive to record a whole choir. I did not request a full choir though, but a small group of background singers.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 225
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OP
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 225 |
I have the Garritan Orchestra. I agree, it is good. Using sample libraries via MIDI though, is something totally different than the RealTracks concept. Quote:
I go along with the idea that with vst support PG has already solved the problem. I have Garratans personal orchestra and with use of the controls can come up with great sounding strings. If I wanted to speed more I could get the Vienna Orchs. Same with the horns. You can get great sounds from Garratans Jazz Band set or spend chunks of $ and get perfect horns with total control from the same folks that do the Vienna Orchestra.
I haven't personally quite figured out to get the vst stuff working yet but once I do I am really looking toward using my Korg M1, Yamaha FX7, NI's B3 the Superior Drummer Drum sets ect in BIAB. They sound super in ProTools and Sonar so they should sound the same with BIAB but with all of the super features of BIAB
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687
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I'm with you Maiki but I also think it would be extremely difficult to do because of the lack of smooth transitions from one chord to another especially with ballads which is where strings would most likely be used. Listen to some ballad RT piano tracks. Notice how choppy they are? It's because a very important piano technique is the use of the pedal for sustain. On ballads a pianist is using the pedal all the time for arpeggios to transistion between chords and phrases. Since Miles Black doesn't know what chords you're going to use all those ballad piano RT's just chop all the chords and they sound mediocre at best. Up tempo piano RT's sound great because for latin or rock styles not so much pedal is used. I think RT strings and vocals would have the same problem. If they're not blending over the changes with a beautiful wash of sound they would sound bad imho.
I just bought a new Kurzweil PC3 and it has those killer Take 6 vocals in it. For ballads I have to use the pedal a lot to work them into the chord changes. When I do it right which is a bit tricky because they're velocity layered, they do sound really nice. Yeah, I just realized as I'm writing this, if you're talking jazz scat RT's it would be even more difficult because part of the beauty of that is all the different elements, do, daa, dat, dot, ooooh's, all that stuff. If those things were all in the same RT, every time you put in different chord changes those do's and dat's and stuff would just be jammed into random places and probably wouldn't sound nice at all.
I can think of a good test though. Now that we have looping, I can record some of those Take 6 vocals from my Kurz and create loops with them but would that be any better than me just playing them live? Hmmmm...I could create some loops and at least post them and you guys might find them useful. I wonder if that's legal if I used Kurz sounds for that? As a guess, maybe not.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,101
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,101 |
If this is a poll, I have no interest in orchesteral instruments or singers doing ooohs and aahs, and wouldn't really find them useful within band in a box. Nylon guitar would fit okay although I'm not particulary interested in latin styles.
Keith
2024 Audiophile Windows 11 AMD RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,Cakewalk,Raven Mti
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
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I'd guess Gregorian Chant is out too? Geez, I was hoping for support for that.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 225
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 225 |
Hi Bob- I agree that scat singing would sure be cool, but also agree that that would probably not be done well by an RT. (Technology will never completely replicate human musicians, and we should be glad for that!) However, I was just thinking of long held (half and whole notes mostly) oohs or aahs (not random, you choose which one, and which gender, or both. To me it seems like that would work, for many varied pop and jazz styles, but of course I could be wrong. Quote:
I'm with you Maiki but I also think it would be extremely difficult to do because of the lack of smooth transitions from one chord to another especially with ballads which is where strings would most likely be used. Listen to some ballad RT piano tracks. Notice how choppy they are? It's because a very important piano technique is the use of the pedal for sustain. On ballads a pianist is using the pedal all the time for arpeggios to transistion between chords and phrases. Since Miles Black doesn't know what chords you're going to use all those ballad piano RT's just chop all the chords and they sound mediocre at best. Up tempo piano RT's sound great because for latin or rock styles not so much pedal is used. I think RT strings and vocals would have the same problem. If they're not blending over the changes with a beautiful wash of sound they would sound bad imho.
I just bought a new Kurzweil PC3 and it has those killer Take 6 vocals in it. For ballads I have to use the pedal a lot to work them into the chord changes. When I do it right which is a bit tricky because they're velocity layered, they do sound really nice. Yeah, I just realized as I'm writing this, if you're talking jazz scat RT's it would be even more difficult because part of the beauty of that is all the different elements, do, daa, dat, dot, ooooh's, all that stuff. If those things were all in the same RT, every time you put in different chord changes those do's and dat's and stuff would just be jammed into random places and probably wouldn't sound nice at all.
I can think of a good test though. Now that we have looping, I can record some of those Take 6 vocals from my Kurz and create loops with them but would that be any better than me just playing them live? Hmmmm...I could create some loops and at least post them and you guys might find them useful. I wonder if that's legal if I used Kurz sounds for that? As a guess, maybe not.
Bob
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 225
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 225 |
Quote:
I'd guess Gregorian Chant is out too? Geez, I was hoping for support for that.
Were you really wishing for support for Gregorian Chant in BIAB, John?
That's what I thought. You weren't, but were being sarcastic.
Are you saying that having background vocalists singing sustained chords, or strings playing sustained chords, occurs as rarely in modern music as Gregorian Chant?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 303
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Jul 2004
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Quote:
What your'are asking for would go beyond the Bandinabox scope. You ask for a Orchestra in the box.
why? at least a string quartet would be good. Don't think it will cost more than a session with Brent Mason.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 559
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2007
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Where's Ray Conniff when we need him? Remember all those vocal riffs of his group emulating the horn parts?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 708
Journeyman
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I agree completely with maiki in that most of the recent styles and RTs have been very good, but just more of the same. I can only assume that this meets the needs of the average BIAB user for gigs before typical younger audiences.
Personnaly I have been longing for years for some smooth, less jazzy sounds and styles that I can use for ballads and smooth big band sounds from the Great American Songbook. For example, I have searched in vain for a style that is right for Moonlight Serenade with it's smooth multi sax requirement. Everything is too harsh, too jazzy or too bouncy. I usually end up substituting strings for brass or adding vibes but it's not the same. This is just one example, there are many others.
I don't care whether they are midi or RT styles, anything for smooth big bands and no-swing ballads is what I want.
Tony
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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So make sure that any requests for future realtracks are placed in the proper WISHLIST FORUM -- where development can easily peruse and decide for future editions.
Flies, honey, vinegar...
--Mac
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